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At the end of the day, countries have no choice. Compared to the United States military spending, they have spent trivial amounts on their own defenses, and now

At the end of the day, countries have no choice. Compared to the United States military spending, they have spent trivial amounts on their own defenses, and now their economies cannot support spending at the levels required for them to catch up, without serious cuts to citizens quality of life. Much of the world is now at the mercy of the United States, they must bend the knee.

Yeul 2y ago
Europe doesn't want to run an empire nor go to war with China. Defending the borders is enough. And a few hundred nukes targeting US cities just in case.
- nostromo 2y ago
  Germany can barely construct an airport today and now you think they’re going to develop hundreds of nuclear warheads from the ground up? They don’t even have nuclear power anymore - they shuttered the last of their nuclear power plants. The entire supply chain will need to be developed and tested without running afoul of the test ban treaty. Besides, nuclear weapons are almost worthless without submarines to carry them. They’d only be useful against an unsophisticated adversary.
  - drumhead 2y ago
    I dont think you realise what German industry is capable of if it chooses to.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - stragies 2y ago
      How much of the European capabilities do you think would remain after Microsoft, Apple, Cisco, Broadcom, Google, etc drop poisoned updates on to them at the next update/connection, scramble all the data, trigger endless bootloops? Disable Azure, AWS and iCloud for European IPs. Some messing with DNS and Cloudflare, along with using the flying stingrays (Starlink Satellites) to mess with mobile communication. Also pile up all Teslas at important traffic intersections into huge lithium battery fires. Basically, it would send Europe back into the stone age, I fear. In under a week.
    - mrmuagi 2y ago
      This reminds me of the old Norm Macdonald [1] Letterman joke. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXdtafGdIVM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXdtafGdIVM
physicsguy 2y ago
It's not quite that simple, even if they had spent more, the US made itself the centrepoint of post-WWII institutions because of the Cold War. As I heard put quite succinctly, on one European podcast this week, even if you have 20 European nations spending more, their current military strategy has always been based around integrating into a combined NATO led force, dominated by US command and control structures. Those 20 European nations therefore would need a total strategic rethink of everything. Purchasing decisions would be totally different - like the British storm shadow missiles gifted to Ukraine that rely on GPS - apparently now will not work.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Marty_Crabneck 2y ago
BS. They can "print" all the money they want. What they really need is: industrial capacity, raw materials and enough ppl. willing and able to turn that into tanks.
inglor_cz 2y ago
"Compared to the United States military spending, they have spent trivial amounts on their own defenses" Strictly said, the US does not spend that much on its defense either. Most of the expenses go into projecting power afar. Strategic goals of, say, Poland, are different. They won't be fighting China over Taiwan, and so they don't need aircraft carriers or a chain of bases around the world. They might invest in an atomic bomb of their own, though. "Much of the world is now at the mercy of the United States" In what sense? If the US starts another hot war in, say, the Middle East, I suspect that the outcomes won't be much better than they were in Iraq. "they must bend the knee" This only works if the giant has some consistent goals. The current US administration seems to flail around instead of pursuing some particular intelligible path. Instead of bending knees, a dozen countries will start developing their own nukes. Non-proliferation might not be dead, but it is certainly critically ill.
dboreham 2y ago
Amazing to see one simpleton destroy the US defense export industry in a couple of weeks.
- nostromo 2y ago
  Suddenly seeing broad support for the military industrial complex from Democrats was not on my bingo card for 2025.
  - BobaFloutist 2y ago
    Democrats have gotten a lot of shocking concessions in America's divorce.
  - wat10000 2y ago
    A lot of the opposition to it might be Democrats, but that doesn't mean Democrats are generally opposed. When Democrats are in power, you don't see them pushing massive military cuts or anything else aimed at dismantling the MIC.
  - alabastervlog 2y ago
    Elected democrats have mostly been neoliberals who love “defense” spending, since like 1981. You’re thinking of the actual left.
- rstuart4133 2y ago
  Well, we saw another simpleton destroy Russia position as a major supplier to the world. He's not only done that. He's had his navy sunk by a country that doesn't own battleships, an enormous arsenal of tanks and guns turned to scrap metal, lost so many troops he's had to ship in battalions from other countries, and had to abandon satellite states like Syria and watch then descend into chaos. I get it, Ukraine is pushed to the brink. But Europe isn't - and have you looked at the state of the other side? As for simpletons - did you see the people pushing for Brexit? Or the moron Australian Prime minister who tried to the couuntry from upgrading from ADSL? It appears the world has no shortage of simpletons. It also appears democracy doesn't prevent you from electing them. I would not blame the yankies too harshly for electing one. We all do it. What democracy does is let you get rid of them. If it doesn't, you, like Russia, don't have a functioning democracy.
nitwit005 2y ago
> and now their economies cannot support spending at the levels required for them to catch up, without serious cuts to citizens quality of life. There's a long history of crippling economies to fund armies and buy weapons. Frankly, that's how US military spending has worked as well. The country would be much wealthier if it hadn't squandered so much on military spending. We just overlook that effect because the country looks so wealthy overall.
drumhead 2y ago
If they couldnt make the Taliban bend the knee or the NVA bend the knee, I dont think they'll be able to do it to Europe, do you?
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  US military flights are EXTREMELY expensive. Deny the US bases close to the place the US cares and you can DRAMATICALLY drive up military costs instantly. We have an incredibly soft underbelly because we have allies and don't have to worry about a lot of details. If suddenly we start getting pressure at every possible pain point/cost point we'd be fucked. Prevent US naval supply. Push American hubris and drive the US into thinking they are doing some 'Berlin Airlift 2.0' and gung-ho Americans will burn through our military $$$s. There's thousands of ways to 'death by 1000 cuts' America's military budget. We take for granted our partners support and can't afford our military without it. Make each and every base an island that has to be completely provided for by the home country, in every detail, with military resources. No civilian transport of supplies for anything. Force it all through military ports/military airports, every last drop of diesel, every moving electron, we'll see how for the US military budget goes.
kristiandupont 2y ago
>Much of the world is now at the mercy of the United States Yeah, and the world is going to react. This situation might benefit the US economically in the short run but it sure won't in the long run.
r00fus 2y ago
LOL, maybe Europe could sign on to China's Belt & Road initiative instead? I mean the terms are probably going to be worse than if they decided to dump the US earlier, but now that may be more attractive than antagonizing Russia & China ... and being ignored by their previous benefactor, the US.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
Haha. And Trump's winning over Canada with his tariffs. And Canada has no choice to become the 51st state. Yall live in dreamland and are the ones is some coosh comfort zone where you image we have all the cards and are guaranteed to come out on top. If you don't think there are buttons that can paralyze/impact the US more than those forced to bend the knee you aren't looking. That the only one pushing this game is US doesn't mean we have the inherently stronger hand. And at some point if we keep pushing others will start stabbing our soft underbelly and we are absolutely fucked.

Yeul 2y ago

Europe doesn't want to run an empire nor go to war with China. Defending the borders is enough. And a few hundred nukes targeting US cities just in case.

nostromo 2y ago
Germany can barely construct an airport today and now you think they’re going to develop hundreds of nuclear warheads from the ground up? They don’t even have nuclear power anymore - they shuttered the last of their nuclear power plants. The entire supply chain will need to be developed and tested without running afoul of the test ban treaty. Besides, nuclear weapons are almost worthless without submarines to carry them. They’d only be useful against an unsophisticated adversary.
- drumhead 2y ago
  I dont think you realise what German industry is capable of if it chooses to.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - stragies 2y ago
    How much of the European capabilities do you think would remain after Microsoft, Apple, Cisco, Broadcom, Google, etc drop poisoned updates on to them at the next update/connection, scramble all the data, trigger endless bootloops? Disable Azure, AWS and iCloud for European IPs. Some messing with DNS and Cloudflare, along with using the flying stingrays (Starlink Satellites) to mess with mobile communication. Also pile up all Teslas at important traffic intersections into huge lithium battery fires. Basically, it would send Europe back into the stone age, I fear. In under a week.
  - mrmuagi 2y ago
    This reminds me of the old Norm Macdonald [1] Letterman joke. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXdtafGdIVM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXdtafGdIVM

physicsguy 2y ago

It's not quite that simple, even if they had spent more, the US made itself the centrepoint of post-WWII institutions because of the Cold War. As I heard put quite succinctly, on one European podcast this week, even if you have 20 European nations spending more, their current military strategy has always been based around integrating into a combined NATO led force, dominated by US command and control structures. Those 20 European nations therefore would need a total strategic rethink of everything. Purchasing decisions would be totally different - like the British storm shadow missiles gifted to Ukraine that rely on GPS - apparently now will not work.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Marty_Crabneck 2y ago

BS. They can "print" all the money they want. What they really need is: industrial capacity, raw materials and enough ppl. willing and able to turn that into tanks.

inglor_cz 2y ago

"Compared to the United States military spending, they have spent trivial amounts on their own defenses" Strictly said, the US does not spend that much on its defense either. Most of the expenses go into projecting power afar. Strategic goals of, say, Poland, are different. They won't be fighting China over Taiwan, and so they don't need aircraft carriers or a chain of bases around the world. They might invest in an atomic bomb of their own, though. "Much of the world is now at the mercy of the United States" In what sense? If the US starts another hot war in, say, the Middle East, I suspect that the outcomes won't be much better than they were in Iraq. "they must bend the knee" This only works if the giant has some consistent goals. The current US administration seems to flail around instead of pursuing some particular intelligible path. Instead of bending knees, a dozen countries will start developing their own nukes. Non-proliferation might not be dead, but it is certainly critically ill.

dboreham 2y ago

Amazing to see one simpleton destroy the US defense export industry in a couple of weeks.

nostromo 2y ago
Suddenly seeing broad support for the military industrial complex from Democrats was not on my bingo card for 2025.
- BobaFloutist 2y ago
  Democrats have gotten a lot of shocking concessions in America's divorce.
- wat10000 2y ago
  A lot of the opposition to it might be Democrats, but that doesn't mean Democrats are generally opposed. When Democrats are in power, you don't see them pushing massive military cuts or anything else aimed at dismantling the MIC.
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  Elected democrats have mostly been neoliberals who love “defense” spending, since like 1981. You’re thinking of the actual left.
rstuart4133 2y ago
Well, we saw another simpleton destroy Russia position as a major supplier to the world. He's not only done that. He's had his navy sunk by a country that doesn't own battleships, an enormous arsenal of tanks and guns turned to scrap metal, lost so many troops he's had to ship in battalions from other countries, and had to abandon satellite states like Syria and watch then descend into chaos. I get it, Ukraine is pushed to the brink. But Europe isn't - and have you looked at the state of the other side? As for simpletons - did you see the people pushing for Brexit? Or the moron Australian Prime minister who tried to the couuntry from upgrading from ADSL? It appears the world has no shortage of simpletons. It also appears democracy doesn't prevent you from electing them. I would not blame the yankies too harshly for electing one. We all do it. What democracy does is let you get rid of them. If it doesn't, you, like Russia, don't have a functioning democracy.

nitwit005 2y ago

> and now their economies cannot support spending at the levels required for them to catch up, without serious cuts to citizens quality of life. There's a long history of crippling economies to fund armies and buy weapons. Frankly, that's how US military spending has worked as well. The country would be much wealthier if it hadn't squandered so much on military spending. We just overlook that effect because the country looks so wealthy overall.

drumhead 2y ago

If they couldnt make the Taliban bend the knee or the NVA bend the knee, I dont think they'll be able to do it to Europe, do you?

_DeadFred_ 2y ago
US military flights are EXTREMELY expensive. Deny the US bases close to the place the US cares and you can DRAMATICALLY drive up military costs instantly. We have an incredibly soft underbelly because we have allies and don't have to worry about a lot of details. If suddenly we start getting pressure at every possible pain point/cost point we'd be fucked. Prevent US naval supply. Push American hubris and drive the US into thinking they are doing some 'Berlin Airlift 2.0' and gung-ho Americans will burn through our military $$$s. There's thousands of ways to 'death by 1000 cuts' America's military budget. We take for granted our partners support and can't afford our military without it. Make each and every base an island that has to be completely provided for by the home country, in every detail, with military resources. No civilian transport of supplies for anything. Force it all through military ports/military airports, every last drop of diesel, every moving electron, we'll see how for the US military budget goes.

kristiandupont 2y ago

>Much of the world is now at the mercy of the United States Yeah, and the world is going to react. This situation might benefit the US economically in the short run but it sure won't in the long run.

r00fus 2y ago

LOL, maybe Europe could sign on to China's Belt & Road initiative instead? I mean the terms are probably going to be worse than if they decided to dump the US earlier, but now that may be more attractive than antagonizing Russia & China ... and being ignored by their previous benefactor, the US.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

Haha. And Trump's winning over Canada with his tariffs. And Canada has no choice to become the 51st state. Yall live in dreamland and are the ones is some coosh comfort zone where you image we have all the cards and are guaranteed to come out on top. If you don't think there are buttons that can paralyze/impact the US more than those forced to bend the knee you aren't looking. That the only one pushing this game is US doesn't mean we have the inherently stronger hand. And at some point if we keep pushing others will start stabbing our soft underbelly and we are absolutely fucked.