4 ms·

What seems to be happening (to me) is roughly every other generation MS makes massive changes to the OS which most people hate for being different, then they re

What seems to be happening (to me) is roughly every other generation MS makes massive changes to the OS which most people hate for being different, then they release a new version of the OS which is just basically polishing those features, maybe walking a couple back, and that becomes the "beloved" version of windows. People hated Vista, and loved 7. Yet 7 was really just vista with a bit of polish. What changed is when 7 came out the average computer capabilities had gone up significantly. People hated 8, but loved 10. The only real difference between the two is MS dropping the weird tablet mode that nobody wanted/asked for. People currently hate 11, I suspect 12 will be loved mostly because MS will back off a bit on some of the new innovative UI changes and advertising everywhere.

mrmattyboy 2y ago
I see what you mean.. but if you take a look at vista vs 7.. Microsoft shoved glass panels, widgets and such down the user's throat in Vista. It was a new look and they wanted to make you realise it. Without spinning a fresh 7 machine now, I'm certain it was very toned down. But, I could be very wrong about this :D Last time I used Windows was XP (I mean, granted last week) because nostalgia is a real thing :D Edit: I can't reply (not sure why, thread too deep?) but @cogman10, you're right! My memory is bad :(
- cogman10 2y ago
  > Without spinning a fresh 7 machine now, I'm certain it was very toned down. I think they were roughly the same Vista: https://img.sysnettechsolutions.com/What-is-Windows-Vista-Nedir-01.webp https://img.sysnettechsolutions.com/What-is-Windows-Vista-Ne... Windows 7: https://blog.thinprint.com/uploads/tp/sites/6/2019/08/3194107102_d37b54d7e0_o.jpg https://blog.thinprint.com/uploads/tp/sites/6/2019/08/319410...
  - lurk2 2y ago
    I never tried with Vista but I customized the appearance of Windows 7 on my old computer and it looked nothing like this. I remember lots of people hated the frosted glass look when it first released, and personally I never got used to it. The OS peaked aesthetically with Windows 2000 and has been on a steady decline since then.
- skyyler 2y ago
  >Without spinning a fresh 7 machine now, I'm certain it was very toned down Your memories are not serving you well. Windows 7 was very glass and very aero when it was first released. You can disable the transparency and fake glossiness, but then it's just a pale blue glossy glass colour instead of transparent.
  - HenryBemis 2y ago
    1) Install any Windows version from the past decade in any machine 2) Go to 'performance' and remove all visuals 3) download and install ClassicShell to have a decent Start button 4) download and use (most are portable) any Privacy settings tool 5) find, download and install WindowsFirewallControl v4.9.x.x and use it on MediumFiltering with "Display Notifications" (you get the 'ZoneAlarm experience') 6) Uninstall all the crapware and disable many services (I use SysInternals Autoruns64)(Winternals for the older ones) 7) Happy Days!!
    - skyyler 2y ago
      Wow, that's a lot more work than my Fedora setup. Windows is only free if you don't value your time, huh?
      - HenryBemis 2y ago
        Microsoft put bread on my table. I started working in a company that was operating 99% of their servers with MS OS. I don't see it that "I am wasting time", I see it that there is this tech called "Windows" and the more I know about Registry, DLLs, etc. is making me better at my job. If Fedora setup puts food on your table, go for it!! I 'bet' on Microsoft for my career and it has taken me around the world multiple times, so yeah :) Tbh I don't change machines 'that' often. My laptop is from 2015. My desktop is 3? 4? years old, and I won't be changing either in the next 5-6 years, they do 'ok' for home use. But every now and then (couple of years) I do buy some second-hand cheap Surface, or HP Elite, or similar Win tablets, I set them up, and keep them on the side (OS, and Firefox only) just in case someone will need an urgent laptop, or I travel somewhere and I want a 'burner' machine with zero data/sw in it.
- sureIy 2y ago
  > Microsoft shoved glass panels, widgets and such down the user's throat Please listen to yourself. It's just a style, they didn't kill your dog. The UI was fine, beautiful even, especially coming from Lego XP — which if you think about it was really tacky, literally an RGB palette.
pdntspa 2y ago
7 had very clearly optimized what was bloated and inefficient in Vista. It wasn't just that PCs were more powerful, there were many cases of 7 running better on systems that Vista would struggle with. The minimum requirements for 7 dropped considerably Personally I think 98, 2000, XP, 7, and to a lesser 10, were all stellar releases from Microsoft. None of those would be the GOAT, but the closest in my mind was 7, which dropped when I was doing tech journalism and I had the time and space to poke at it in an extended fashion
- cogman10 2y ago
  > The minimum requirements for 7 dropped considerably Nope. They were raised. Vista's minimum requirements were [1] A modern processor (at least 800MHz) 512 MB of system RAM memory A graphics processor that is DirectX 9 capable 7's [2] a 1 GHz or faster processor 1 GB (32-bit OS) or 2 GB (64-bit OS) of RAM, 16 GB (32-bit) or 20 GB (64-bit) available disk space a DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM 1.0 or higher driver. [1] https://techjourney.net/windows-vista-minimum-and-recommended-system-requirements/ https://techjourney.net/windows-vista-minimum-and-recommende... [2] https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-7-32-bit-minimum-spec/62b96b44-09d9-4402-bb0c-d5b3caf66138 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window...
  - p_ing 2y ago
    What changed was the availability/cost of hardware and much improved graphics driver situation. Vista RTM had some serious driver performance issues thanks to the new WDDM. Although resolved later in it's lifecycle, it was too late to shed that stigma. Plus Vista's UAC was far too intrusive.
    - seabass-labrax 2y ago
      > Plus Vista's UAC was far too intrusive. I agree, but I think that technology journalists were too harsh on this aspect of Vista. It was Microsoft's only really serious attempt at shoring up single-user security on Windows, and I think that its poor reception contributed to Microsoft neglecting to make any improvements thereafter. xkcd.com/1200 is still embarrassing relevant over a decade later.
bigstrat2003 2y ago
> The only real difference between the two is MS dropping the weird tablet mode that nobody wanted/asked for. I mean, that's a significant difference. It was well justified to hate Windows 8 when they screwed up the main UI for the entire OS as badly as they did.
wkat4242 2y ago
> People currently hate 11, I suspect 12 will be loved mostly because MS will back off a bit on some of the new innovative UI changes and advertising everywhere. Oh I'm sure it will be radically different. I expect they will rename windows to "Copilot" or Windows Copilot" just like they have done with most of their other products like Microsoft 365. I'm not even joking. They just seem so hell-bent on destroying their existing branding, even more than they normally are. Looks like they have a huge fear of missing that AI boat and becoming irrelevant. At the same time they are building a catalogue that's so difficult to understand because everything is called Copilot now. I've even seen their own sales people get confused about what's what.
- lurk2 2y ago
  Copilot is sort of a better name for an operating system powered by AI than Windows. Personally I don't care what they name their services because I've already determined I want nothing more to do with them.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    It's not powered by AI though. It's just got a bunch of teasers and upselling ads for AI cloud services. Doesn't really have much to do with the OS. The same with office, there was no point in renaming it to Copilot especially because the standard license doesn't even come with the Copilot features in office.
lurk2 2y ago
> People hated 8, but loved 10. I think the pattern holds for Windows 7 and Vista. I don't know anyone who remembers Windows 10 fondly, and on a personal level I hated both 8 and 10. I also don't share your optimism regarding Windows 12. You or I might consider switching to Linux, but 95% of the population has never heard of Linux and even fewer will ever install it. Then there is MacOS, which is gated behind hardware that is prohibitively expensive, as well as having a limited selection of software available; also a non-starter. Microsoft isn't going to back off of user-hostile practices unless they lose a series of anti-trust suits. They were already forced to allow users to uninstall Edge in the EU and they region-locked the functionality so that users outside of the EU were still stuck with Edge. They are in the mass surveillance game for the long haul.
com2kid 2y ago
7 has significant kernel improvements that dramatically improves its performance, as well as huge changes to its graphics system that heavily reduced memory usage. (Data that was mirror in system ram wasn't anymore, dropping local RAM usage.) If you threw enough horse power at, vista could be fast, but it would always end up using more resources than windows 7.

mrmattyboy 2y ago

I see what you mean.. but if you take a look at vista vs 7.. Microsoft shoved glass panels, widgets and such down the user's throat in Vista. It was a new look and they wanted to make you realise it. Without spinning a fresh 7 machine now, I'm certain it was very toned down. But, I could be very wrong about this :D Last time I used Windows was XP (I mean, granted last week) because nostalgia is a real thing :D Edit: I can't reply (not sure why, thread too deep?) but @cogman10, you're right! My memory is bad :(

cogman10 2y ago
> Without spinning a fresh 7 machine now, I'm certain it was very toned down. I think they were roughly the same Vista: https://img.sysnettechsolutions.com/What-is-Windows-Vista-Nedir-01.webp https://img.sysnettechsolutions.com/What-is-Windows-Vista-Ne... Windows 7: https://blog.thinprint.com/uploads/tp/sites/6/2019/08/3194107102_d37b54d7e0_o.jpg https://blog.thinprint.com/uploads/tp/sites/6/2019/08/319410...
- lurk2 2y ago
  I never tried with Vista but I customized the appearance of Windows 7 on my old computer and it looked nothing like this. I remember lots of people hated the frosted glass look when it first released, and personally I never got used to it. The OS peaked aesthetically with Windows 2000 and has been on a steady decline since then.
skyyler 2y ago
>Without spinning a fresh 7 machine now, I'm certain it was very toned down Your memories are not serving you well. Windows 7 was very glass and very aero when it was first released. You can disable the transparency and fake glossiness, but then it's just a pale blue glossy glass colour instead of transparent.
- HenryBemis 2y ago
  1) Install any Windows version from the past decade in any machine 2) Go to 'performance' and remove all visuals 3) download and install ClassicShell to have a decent Start button 4) download and use (most are portable) any Privacy settings tool 5) find, download and install WindowsFirewallControl v4.9.x.x and use it on MediumFiltering with "Display Notifications" (you get the 'ZoneAlarm experience') 6) Uninstall all the crapware and disable many services (I use SysInternals Autoruns64)(Winternals for the older ones) 7) Happy Days!!
  - skyyler 2y ago
    Wow, that's a lot more work than my Fedora setup. Windows is only free if you don't value your time, huh?
    - HenryBemis 2y ago
      Microsoft put bread on my table. I started working in a company that was operating 99% of their servers with MS OS. I don't see it that "I am wasting time", I see it that there is this tech called "Windows" and the more I know about Registry, DLLs, etc. is making me better at my job. If Fedora setup puts food on your table, go for it!! I 'bet' on Microsoft for my career and it has taken me around the world multiple times, so yeah :) Tbh I don't change machines 'that' often. My laptop is from 2015. My desktop is 3? 4? years old, and I won't be changing either in the next 5-6 years, they do 'ok' for home use. But every now and then (couple of years) I do buy some second-hand cheap Surface, or HP Elite, or similar Win tablets, I set them up, and keep them on the side (OS, and Firefox only) just in case someone will need an urgent laptop, or I travel somewhere and I want a 'burner' machine with zero data/sw in it.
sureIy 2y ago
> Microsoft shoved glass panels, widgets and such down the user's throat Please listen to yourself. It's just a style, they didn't kill your dog. The UI was fine, beautiful even, especially coming from Lego XP — which if you think about it was really tacky, literally an RGB palette.

pdntspa 2y ago

7 had very clearly optimized what was bloated and inefficient in Vista. It wasn't just that PCs were more powerful, there were many cases of 7 running better on systems that Vista would struggle with. The minimum requirements for 7 dropped considerably Personally I think 98, 2000, XP, 7, and to a lesser 10, were all stellar releases from Microsoft. None of those would be the GOAT, but the closest in my mind was 7, which dropped when I was doing tech journalism and I had the time and space to poke at it in an extended fashion

cogman10 2y ago
> The minimum requirements for 7 dropped considerably Nope. They were raised. Vista's minimum requirements were [1] A modern processor (at least 800MHz) 512 MB of system RAM memory A graphics processor that is DirectX 9 capable 7's [2] a 1 GHz or faster processor 1 GB (32-bit OS) or 2 GB (64-bit OS) of RAM, 16 GB (32-bit) or 20 GB (64-bit) available disk space a DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM 1.0 or higher driver. [1] https://techjourney.net/windows-vista-minimum-and-recommended-system-requirements/ https://techjourney.net/windows-vista-minimum-and-recommende... [2] https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-7-32-bit-minimum-spec/62b96b44-09d9-4402-bb0c-d5b3caf66138 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window...
- p_ing 2y ago
  What changed was the availability/cost of hardware and much improved graphics driver situation. Vista RTM had some serious driver performance issues thanks to the new WDDM. Although resolved later in it's lifecycle, it was too late to shed that stigma. Plus Vista's UAC was far too intrusive.
  - seabass-labrax 2y ago
    > Plus Vista's UAC was far too intrusive. I agree, but I think that technology journalists were too harsh on this aspect of Vista. It was Microsoft's only really serious attempt at shoring up single-user security on Windows, and I think that its poor reception contributed to Microsoft neglecting to make any improvements thereafter. xkcd.com/1200 is still embarrassing relevant over a decade later.

bigstrat2003 2y ago

> The only real difference between the two is MS dropping the weird tablet mode that nobody wanted/asked for. I mean, that's a significant difference. It was well justified to hate Windows 8 when they screwed up the main UI for the entire OS as badly as they did.

wkat4242 2y ago

> People currently hate 11, I suspect 12 will be loved mostly because MS will back off a bit on some of the new innovative UI changes and advertising everywhere. Oh I'm sure it will be radically different. I expect they will rename windows to "Copilot" or Windows Copilot" just like they have done with most of their other products like Microsoft 365. I'm not even joking. They just seem so hell-bent on destroying their existing branding, even more than they normally are. Looks like they have a huge fear of missing that AI boat and becoming irrelevant. At the same time they are building a catalogue that's so difficult to understand because everything is called Copilot now. I've even seen their own sales people get confused about what's what.

lurk2 2y ago
Copilot is sort of a better name for an operating system powered by AI than Windows. Personally I don't care what they name their services because I've already determined I want nothing more to do with them.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  It's not powered by AI though. It's just got a bunch of teasers and upselling ads for AI cloud services. Doesn't really have much to do with the OS. The same with office, there was no point in renaming it to Copilot especially because the standard license doesn't even come with the Copilot features in office.

lurk2 2y ago

> People hated 8, but loved 10. I think the pattern holds for Windows 7 and Vista. I don't know anyone who remembers Windows 10 fondly, and on a personal level I hated both 8 and 10. I also don't share your optimism regarding Windows 12. You or I might consider switching to Linux, but 95% of the population has never heard of Linux and even fewer will ever install it. Then there is MacOS, which is gated behind hardware that is prohibitively expensive, as well as having a limited selection of software available; also a non-starter. Microsoft isn't going to back off of user-hostile practices unless they lose a series of anti-trust suits. They were already forced to allow users to uninstall Edge in the EU and they region-locked the functionality so that users outside of the EU were still stuck with Edge. They are in the mass surveillance game for the long haul.

com2kid 2y ago

7 has significant kernel improvements that dramatically improves its performance, as well as huge changes to its graphics system that heavily reduced memory usage. (Data that was mirror in system ram wasn't anymore, dropping local RAM usage.) If you threw enough horse power at, vista could be fast, but it would always end up using more resources than windows 7.