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You can't just 'avoid' them; they're your co-workers, your managers, your family members. Likewise, voting a comment off of the screen doesn't mean it's "gettin

by mnicole 14y ago

You can't just 'avoid' them; they're your co-workers, your managers, your family members. Likewise, voting a comment off of the screen doesn't mean it's "getting better", it means enough likeminded people were able to get their point across. Reddit illustrates the problem well; while the push for equality is out there and people are hearing it, it doesn't stop misogynist/otherwise hurtful responses to shoot up to the top, with little to no regret if it means laughs and upvotes. Until that's not the overwhelming response, it isn't getting better. Men don't understand the problem. They haven't had to deal with it and because they see themselves and their friends as upstanding citizens, they don't think these things happen as often as they do.

Tichy 14y ago
As I said, I understand defending your turf (ie your job, online community, whatever). However calling out men really does nothing. I don't grope random girls in bars, so I have no idea how I am supposed to react to your post. Obviously would I encounter unpleasant behavior towards women, it would be a different thing. But I rarely do. Also I think for the groping incident it was pointed out that it is illegal, so I suppose had the groper been known, there would have been consequences already. It's true that from the beginning men don't understand the problem. But after a while you can learn, and occasionally you get a homosexual approach. I understand how it can be uncomfortable to be desired by a stranger. Unfortunately I think it is partly in the nature of things. Women are "the price" and hence men have to hunt after them. Men are pretty worthless biologically (simply because it takes less men than women to create lots of children). That doesn't excuse disrespectful behavior, of course. But it is a biological reality that at least men have to do a lot of approaching, and women will not always like it (it shouldn't be groping, but I hope you get the idea). I don't understand your issue with the voting: this is Hacker News, and the offending comment was quickly removed. If Reddit doesn't work out that way, perhaps don't hang out on Reddit? That is what I mean by avoiding jerks. Personally I probably wouldn't enjoy Reddit either because of the jerks. But you can not convert any and all environments, or at least, if you want to try, good luck! I don't think jerks can be eradicated. I can only say it works well for me: I hardly ever encounter jerks, and I don't think any of my friends would grope women in a bar. I could make my life miserable by thinking about the millions of jerks out there, but why bother?
ghjm 14y ago
I can assure you that men with daughters understand the problem. You can't really take reddit as a good sample of men in general. 56% of reddit is age 18-25, as compared to about 7% of the overall US population. The reason this is a problem is that young adults are much more likely than average to exhibit poor judgment, inaccurate risk perception, perceived invulnerability and egocentrism. This has been shown in countless studies. Of course it is only true statistically, not necessarily of any particular individual. So yes, reddit is full of hurtful crap, and it gets upvoted in the default subreddits. And you can legitimately take that as evidence that young men don't understand the problem. But, eventually, they do grow up.

by mnicole 14y ago

Tichy 14y ago

As I said, I understand defending your turf (ie your job, online community, whatever). However calling out men really does nothing. I don't grope random girls in bars, so I have no idea how I am supposed to react to your post. Obviously would I encounter unpleasant behavior towards women, it would be a different thing. But I rarely do. Also I think for the groping incident it was pointed out that it is illegal, so I suppose had the groper been known, there would have been consequences already. It's true that from the beginning men don't understand the problem. But after a while you can learn, and occasionally you get a homosexual approach. I understand how it can be uncomfortable to be desired by a stranger. Unfortunately I think it is partly in the nature of things. Women are "the price" and hence men have to hunt after them. Men are pretty worthless biologically (simply because it takes less men than women to create lots of children). That doesn't excuse disrespectful behavior, of course. But it is a biological reality that at least men have to do a lot of approaching, and women will not always like it (it shouldn't be groping, but I hope you get the idea). I don't understand your issue with the voting: this is Hacker News, and the offending comment was quickly removed. If Reddit doesn't work out that way, perhaps don't hang out on Reddit? That is what I mean by avoiding jerks. Personally I probably wouldn't enjoy Reddit either because of the jerks. But you can not convert any and all environments, or at least, if you want to try, good luck! I don't think jerks can be eradicated. I can only say it works well for me: I hardly ever encounter jerks, and I don't think any of my friends would grope women in a bar. I could make my life miserable by thinking about the millions of jerks out there, but why bother?

ghjm 14y ago

I can assure you that men with daughters understand the problem. You can't really take reddit as a good sample of men in general. 56% of reddit is age 18-25, as compared to about 7% of the overall US population. The reason this is a problem is that young adults are much more likely than average to exhibit poor judgment, inaccurate risk perception, perceived invulnerability and egocentrism. This has been shown in countless studies. Of course it is only true statistically, not necessarily of any particular individual. So yes, reddit is full of hurtful crap, and it gets upvoted in the default subreddits. And you can legitimately take that as evidence that young men don't understand the problem. But, eventually, they do grow up.