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>The US offered them an agreement A mostly worthless and symbolic agreement that primarily served to fluff certain egos. >and Zelensky refused He didn't refu

>The US offered them an agreement A mostly worthless and symbolic agreement that primarily served to fluff certain egos. >and Zelensky refused He didn't refuse! He was there at the White House to sign the agreement! Then Trump and Vance kicked him out without offering him the chance to sign it!

ty6853 2y ago
There was a recent comment on HN where someone threatened my wife would be raped, my cell phone would stop working, modern society would fall apart, and my children would all be marched off to war if I don't pay taxes to fund Ukraine. Unlike my own greyed comments, those were vetted. Now maybe this is all true. But if it is, knowing how transactional international politics is, why not just sign the fluff agreement and take the bruised ego? It's their right either way. I just find it interesting and a bit bizarre. I think the HN crowd is missing a bit of the more democratic sentiment here, that after years of support we can't keep fueling foreign nations based on blame for others' murder, there needs to be movement towards resolution and if not, Ukraine can shine and show us their independence they're proud of. Personally I don't see this ending unless Zelensky is willing to take a bruised ego.
- graeme 2y ago
  >He didn't refuse! He was there at the White House to sign the agreement! Then Trump and Vance kicked him out without offering him the chance to sign it! You skipped over this portion. He didn't refuse.
  - ty6853 2y ago
    We all saw what happened. The man was shaking his head long before the departure. He "didn't refuse" except by all communication and body language. If a man argued "she didn't refuse" after signaling in every way she wasn't interested, no one would buy your absurd and farcical assertion. They're only accepting it now because it suits their fictional premise. Even an autist can clearly see the disinterest. "He didn't refuse" is the new propaganda to cover up how badly Zelensky fucked up in diplomacy. They sat the man down to sign it, then what we witnessed happened instead.
    - dralley 2y ago
      Lol, what. You're right, we all saw what happened. Trump was calling Zelenskiy a "dictator with a 4% approval rating" (it was 52%, now 68%) the week before! He and all his cabinet appointees keep equivocating on who started the war. He keeps lying about how much value has been given to Ukraine (it's less than half of the 350b he claims). He went on a tirade about how he and Putin "went through the Russia hoax together". Vance has leaked text messages from months go saying he "won't even take calls from Ukraine". >“Dude I won’t even take calls from Ukraine,” he told Johnson in October, about three weeks after House Republicans blocked additional aid to help Kyiv repel the Russian invasion. “Two very senior guys reached out to me. The head of their intel. The head of the Air Force. Bitching about F16s.” Trump was never truly interested in a fair deal. He wants an arrangement that will let him suck up to Putin while quickly claiming success no matter how dogshit the terms are, and Zelenskiy isn't enough of a pushover to give him that.
      - Rapzid 2y ago
        I didn't know about these JD texts, but it checks out. It has seemed to me that: * Trump has a chip on his shoulder over this first impeachment and the Muller investigation * He sees this whole thing as a bother, and Zelensky a nuisance That oval office "mean girls" meeting makes total sense now; both Trump and Vance feel the above. They just want quick credit for a quick end and care about nothing else.
    - beveldropshadow 2y ago
      Why fly to Washington then? Why tweet that he intended to sign? Your rape analogy is backwards. Two men ganged up on someone and you want to claim a grimace as a smile. "Even an artist can clearly see" is extremely ironic.
      - ty6853 2y ago
        I hope the families of the dead ask Zelensky these important questions. My conjecture is he was unwilling to take an ego bruise for the sake of his country.
- AlecSchueler 2y ago
  > There was a recent comment on HN where someone threatened my wife would be raped, my cell phone would stop working, modern society would fall apart, and my children would all be marched off to war if I don't pay taxes to fund Ukraine. Unlike my own greyed comments, those were vetted I know the thread you are talking about and this is a very hyperbolic misrepresentation of that exchange. Anyone reading this would be free to check your comment history and understand why "the HN crowd" responded in the way they did.
  - ty6853 2y ago
    Sure and it isn't hyperbolic to force down the rabbit hole that not paying Ukraine brings us straight into whatever anarcho dystopia is believed to come down as soon as grey area executive military impoundment happens. That's the way it always is, certain sentiment are just accepted while others go straight into wife raping -- but how dare _you_ be hyperbolic!
- FrontierProject 2y ago
  If you're tired of giving a foreign nation the support they bought from you for the price of their nuclear arsenal then give them back what they paid and walk away.
  - ty6853 2y ago
    Such 'purchase' was not ratified by the senate, legally they didn't buy jack.

ty6853 2y ago

There was a recent comment on HN where someone threatened my wife would be raped, my cell phone would stop working, modern society would fall apart, and my children would all be marched off to war if I don't pay taxes to fund Ukraine. Unlike my own greyed comments, those were vetted. Now maybe this is all true. But if it is, knowing how transactional international politics is, why not just sign the fluff agreement and take the bruised ego? It's their right either way. I just find it interesting and a bit bizarre. I think the HN crowd is missing a bit of the more democratic sentiment here, that after years of support we can't keep fueling foreign nations based on blame for others' murder, there needs to be movement towards resolution and if not, Ukraine can shine and show us their independence they're proud of. Personally I don't see this ending unless Zelensky is willing to take a bruised ego.

graeme 2y ago
>He didn't refuse! He was there at the White House to sign the agreement! Then Trump and Vance kicked him out without offering him the chance to sign it! You skipped over this portion. He didn't refuse.
- ty6853 2y ago
  We all saw what happened. The man was shaking his head long before the departure. He "didn't refuse" except by all communication and body language. If a man argued "she didn't refuse" after signaling in every way she wasn't interested, no one would buy your absurd and farcical assertion. They're only accepting it now because it suits their fictional premise. Even an autist can clearly see the disinterest. "He didn't refuse" is the new propaganda to cover up how badly Zelensky fucked up in diplomacy. They sat the man down to sign it, then what we witnessed happened instead.
  - dralley 2y ago
    Lol, what. You're right, we all saw what happened. Trump was calling Zelenskiy a "dictator with a 4% approval rating" (it was 52%, now 68%) the week before! He and all his cabinet appointees keep equivocating on who started the war. He keeps lying about how much value has been given to Ukraine (it's less than half of the 350b he claims). He went on a tirade about how he and Putin "went through the Russia hoax together". Vance has leaked text messages from months go saying he "won't even take calls from Ukraine". >“Dude I won’t even take calls from Ukraine,” he told Johnson in October, about three weeks after House Republicans blocked additional aid to help Kyiv repel the Russian invasion. “Two very senior guys reached out to me. The head of their intel. The head of the Air Force. Bitching about F16s.” Trump was never truly interested in a fair deal. He wants an arrangement that will let him suck up to Putin while quickly claiming success no matter how dogshit the terms are, and Zelenskiy isn't enough of a pushover to give him that.
    - Rapzid 2y ago
      I didn't know about these JD texts, but it checks out. It has seemed to me that: * Trump has a chip on his shoulder over this first impeachment and the Muller investigation * He sees this whole thing as a bother, and Zelensky a nuisance That oval office "mean girls" meeting makes total sense now; both Trump and Vance feel the above. They just want quick credit for a quick end and care about nothing else.
  - beveldropshadow 2y ago
    Why fly to Washington then? Why tweet that he intended to sign? Your rape analogy is backwards. Two men ganged up on someone and you want to claim a grimace as a smile. "Even an artist can clearly see" is extremely ironic.
    - ty6853 2y ago
      I hope the families of the dead ask Zelensky these important questions. My conjecture is he was unwilling to take an ego bruise for the sake of his country.
AlecSchueler 2y ago
> There was a recent comment on HN where someone threatened my wife would be raped, my cell phone would stop working, modern society would fall apart, and my children would all be marched off to war if I don't pay taxes to fund Ukraine. Unlike my own greyed comments, those were vetted I know the thread you are talking about and this is a very hyperbolic misrepresentation of that exchange. Anyone reading this would be free to check your comment history and understand why "the HN crowd" responded in the way they did.
- ty6853 2y ago
  Sure and it isn't hyperbolic to force down the rabbit hole that not paying Ukraine brings us straight into whatever anarcho dystopia is believed to come down as soon as grey area executive military impoundment happens. That's the way it always is, certain sentiment are just accepted while others go straight into wife raping -- but how dare _you_ be hyperbolic!
FrontierProject 2y ago
If you're tired of giving a foreign nation the support they bought from you for the price of their nuclear arsenal then give them back what they paid and walk away.
- ty6853 2y ago
  Such 'purchase' was not ratified by the senate, legally they didn't buy jack.