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I don’t know. You can ask those poor people who can’t afford to buy a new “eco” car and are now unable to drive if they feel like their lives are better now. Ma

by jisnsm 2y ago

I don’t know. You can ask those poor people who can’t afford to buy a new “eco” car and are now unable to drive if they feel like their lives are better now. Maybe they have something to say about it, but ecologists may not want to hear it. (Or, more realistically, they will ignore what people want, because intellectuals know better)

MagnumOpus 2y ago
There are barely any of those. Even 19-year-old cars still qualify for ULEZ exemption as do really old beaters so only cars that are between 20 and 40 years old have to avoid the zone or pay.
- jisnsm 2y ago
  That is completely false. Diesel cars, which are what the poors drive, are only allowed if they are from 2015 or newer (Euro 6)
  - tim333 2y ago
    Really? Are you from the area? I live there and don't know any poors driving diesels. It has been a cost for some businesses with diesel vans who have had to update but such is life. It was a bit of a pain for me as I ended up swapping my 31 year old car for a 12 year old car but I'd rather have clean air and the 31 year old was getting a bit rusty anyway. The change in air quality has made a big difference for me, I've been central for ~18 years and was thinking of moving out because the pollution was making my eyes sting all the time but it's much better now. Partly ULEZ and partly other stuff like the taxis going electric and the busses getting better engines.
daveoc64 2y ago
Well yes, if the choice is between everyone breathing in air that damages their health, or a small number of people being unable to drive, surely the former is always better?
- jisnsm 2y ago
  A small number? In the UK there are more than 1 cars per household. In London it’s 0.76 which is still far, far from “a small number”
  - daveoc64 2y ago
    Most of which aren't affected by the ULEZ or other similar zones around the UK. Not to mention that many poorer households don't even have a car in the first place.
    - tim333 2y ago
      I'm not sure if anyone is "unable to drive" because of ULEZ. You don't have a car in London unless you have at least some money. I have a friend who dives less because it puts the cost up but again it's one of those things.
tim333 2y ago
Most people directly affected are quite chilled about it. To qualify for the ULEZ. To qualify you don't really need an “eco” car, just any petrol car sold after 2005 when the Euro 4 standard came in. So a 20 year old banger will do which can be bought from £500 upwards. Also the genuinely poor tend to not have a car.
- AlecSchueler 2y ago
  The "genuinely poor" would also be those suffering the most from the pollution.
KennyBlanken 2y ago
Pssst, guess who owns fewer cars than any other demographic in a city? Poor people. I know this shocks boomers but the poorest people in any city don't own cars because they can't afford them - and they subsidize the vehicle owners through the taxes they pay.

by jisnsm 2y ago

MagnumOpus 2y ago

There are barely any of those. Even 19-year-old cars still qualify for ULEZ exemption as do really old beaters so only cars that are between 20 and 40 years old have to avoid the zone or pay.

jisnsm 2y ago
That is completely false. Diesel cars, which are what the poors drive, are only allowed if they are from 2015 or newer (Euro 6)
- tim333 2y ago
  Really? Are you from the area? I live there and don't know any poors driving diesels. It has been a cost for some businesses with diesel vans who have had to update but such is life. It was a bit of a pain for me as I ended up swapping my 31 year old car for a 12 year old car but I'd rather have clean air and the 31 year old was getting a bit rusty anyway. The change in air quality has made a big difference for me, I've been central for ~18 years and was thinking of moving out because the pollution was making my eyes sting all the time but it's much better now. Partly ULEZ and partly other stuff like the taxis going electric and the busses getting better engines.

daveoc64 2y ago

Well yes, if the choice is between everyone breathing in air that damages their health, or a small number of people being unable to drive, surely the former is always better?

jisnsm 2y ago
A small number? In the UK there are more than 1 cars per household. In London it’s 0.76 which is still far, far from “a small number”
- daveoc64 2y ago
  Most of which aren't affected by the ULEZ or other similar zones around the UK. Not to mention that many poorer households don't even have a car in the first place.
  - tim333 2y ago
    I'm not sure if anyone is "unable to drive" because of ULEZ. You don't have a car in London unless you have at least some money. I have a friend who dives less because it puts the cost up but again it's one of those things.

tim333 2y ago

Most people directly affected are quite chilled about it. To qualify for the ULEZ. To qualify you don't really need an “eco” car, just any petrol car sold after 2005 when the Euro 4 standard came in. So a 20 year old banger will do which can be bought from £500 upwards. Also the genuinely poor tend to not have a car.

AlecSchueler 2y ago
The "genuinely poor" would also be those suffering the most from the pollution.

KennyBlanken 2y ago

Pssst, guess who owns fewer cars than any other demographic in a city? Poor people. I know this shocks boomers but the poorest people in any city don't own cars because they can't afford them - and they subsidize the vehicle owners through the taxes they pay.