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Yes, bitcoin. Bitcoin is the only truly decentralised digital asset that governments can't control or stop. You can self-custody it by keeping 12 words secret

by npoc 2y ago

Yes, bitcoin. Bitcoin is the only truly decentralised digital asset that governments can't control or stop. You can self-custody it by keeping 12 words secret. You can even add multiple passphrases so that you can split the "keys" to your bitcoin across multiple locations with plausible deniability that the passphrases even exist. The options are endless. You can store your 12-word mnemonic in the physical domain, and the passphrase(s) in the digital domain. You can even store it in your head if you like (12 short words are surprisingly easy to remember)

akimbostrawman 2y ago
How can btc be the "only truly decentralized" when its impossible for the average person to be part of that network in a meaningful way without a warehouse of ASICS? Meanwhile superior alternatives like monero can actually be supported and acquired with everyday hardware because they actually preventing centralization by being ASIC resistant. BTC is also a very poor choice to be used private and anonymous because every transactions is tracable forever by design, again unlike monero.
- TiredOfLife 2y ago
  You can run a shallow bitcoin node. You run it once every couple months let it catch up. Do your transactions and close
  - akimbostrawman 2y ago
    That does not change or mitigate the centralization of the mining power to ASIC farms
- npoc 2y ago
  I run a full node with a Raspberry Pi 4 and a 1GB USB drive. The node you connect to defines bitcoin, not the miners. If you want to mine, you can do that with a single ASIC and join a pool. The main obstacle is finding free/cheap energy, and the beautiful thing about bitcoin is that demand-based price of said energy automatically repels miners from each other geographically.
  - akimbostrawman 2y ago
    The point is that the control of the computing is done by Centralized ASIC mining farms not individuals
    - npoc 2y ago
      Incorrect. The nodes control the miners. If miners don't mine according to the wishes of the node operator, their blocks are rejected. This was demonstrated in the block-size wars.
      - akimbostrawman 2y ago
        And those miners are owned by a disproportionately smaller number using ASCI farms unobtainable by most owner/user which is the opposite of being decentralized. You seem to be spinning in a circle
        npoc 2y ago
        Nope. No circle. What the nodes say goes. The nodes are the vote of the people. Clear? As for centralisation of mining - you're mistaking ASIC farms with mining pools. Miners can switch mining pools in milliseconds if a mining pool goes rogue.
        akimbostrawman 2y ago
        This isn't about mining pools but btc mining as a whole. Almost no one who holds btc mines because the only way to do that without heavy losses and actually contribute to the network requires ASICs and the only ones who have them are ASIC farms = centralization, opposite of truly decentralized not only in technical terms (non ASIC resistant) but reality.
        npoc 2y ago
        Do gold miners need to hold gold? Do gold holders need to mine gold? There are all types of miners, those with a single ASIC miner to those that have a warehouse full. Its completely untrue that the only people who own ASICs are farms. Anyone can buy and run a single ASIC miner competitively if they have a source of cheap (i.e. unwanted) energy. As I mentioned earlier, mining is inherently decentralised geographically, because as the demand for the cheap energy in any one location increases, so does its price. Miners are therefore effectively geographically repelled from one another. Pools mean that groups of individual miners with just a small number of ASICs each, are creating hash-rates that compete with large companies who own vast swathes of ASICs.
- npoc 2y ago
  The pseudo-anonymous design of bitcoin is perfect. It allows clear, reliable audit of the supply to detect any inflation bugs and acts as a Trojan horse into institutions that don't want an fully-anonymous asset. Anonymity can be obtained if you really want it (non-KYC on/off ramps, conjoin etc), and is also provided on higher layers/networks like Lightning If you believe Monero is superior, the market thinks otherwise: https://imgur.com/a/YfvuLWW https://imgur.com/a/YfvuLWW
  - beeflet 2y ago
    Good, the market is wrong. As a trader I can only profit when there is a disparity of information like this.
    - npoc 2y ago
      A 7-year continuous downtrend with only signs of weakness, even now, is certainly quite a disparity.
      - beeflet 2y ago
        yep
  - akimbostrawman 2y ago
    "pseudo" (whatever that is) anonymity without privacy is worthless since its trivial to deanonymize anything if you just follow the forever publicly visible trail. Its a detrimental weakness regardless whatever cope you try to sell it as to justifiy the numbers keep going up regardless of actual utility as currency where the price is irrelevant because the real world already shows which is used for gambling and which as exchange for value.
    - npoc 2y ago
      I have no wish to use bitcoin as a currency. Maybe one day, perhaps not in my lifetime it will become one, but I'm fine with it being the hardest liquid store of value we've ever seen and will likely ever see. It's also not trivial to "deanonymize" bitcoin. Especially if it was acquired through non-KYC and/or takes steps to add privacy (such as conjoin or non-KYC on/off ramps).

by npoc 2y ago

akimbostrawman 2y ago

How can btc be the "only truly decentralized" when its impossible for the average person to be part of that network in a meaningful way without a warehouse of ASICS? Meanwhile superior alternatives like monero can actually be supported and acquired with everyday hardware because they actually preventing centralization by being ASIC resistant. BTC is also a very poor choice to be used private and anonymous because every transactions is tracable forever by design, again unlike monero.

TiredOfLife 2y ago
You can run a shallow bitcoin node. You run it once every couple months let it catch up. Do your transactions and close
- akimbostrawman 2y ago
  That does not change or mitigate the centralization of the mining power to ASIC farms
npoc 2y ago
I run a full node with a Raspberry Pi 4 and a 1GB USB drive. The node you connect to defines bitcoin, not the miners. If you want to mine, you can do that with a single ASIC and join a pool. The main obstacle is finding free/cheap energy, and the beautiful thing about bitcoin is that demand-based price of said energy automatically repels miners from each other geographically.
- akimbostrawman 2y ago
  The point is that the control of the computing is done by Centralized ASIC mining farms not individuals
  - npoc 2y ago
    Incorrect. The nodes control the miners. If miners don't mine according to the wishes of the node operator, their blocks are rejected. This was demonstrated in the block-size wars.
    - akimbostrawman 2y ago
      And those miners are owned by a disproportionately smaller number using ASCI farms unobtainable by most owner/user which is the opposite of being decentralized. You seem to be spinning in a circle
      - npoc 2y ago
        Nope. No circle. What the nodes say goes. The nodes are the vote of the people. Clear? As for centralisation of mining - you're mistaking ASIC farms with mining pools. Miners can switch mining pools in milliseconds if a mining pool goes rogue.
        akimbostrawman 2y ago
        This isn't about mining pools but btc mining as a whole. Almost no one who holds btc mines because the only way to do that without heavy losses and actually contribute to the network requires ASICs and the only ones who have them are ASIC farms = centralization, opposite of truly decentralized not only in technical terms (non ASIC resistant) but reality.
        npoc 2y ago
        Do gold miners need to hold gold? Do gold holders need to mine gold? There are all types of miners, those with a single ASIC miner to those that have a warehouse full. Its completely untrue that the only people who own ASICs are farms. Anyone can buy and run a single ASIC miner competitively if they have a source of cheap (i.e. unwanted) energy. As I mentioned earlier, mining is inherently decentralised geographically, because as the demand for the cheap energy in any one location increases, so does its price. Miners are therefore effectively geographically repelled from one another. Pools mean that groups of individual miners with just a small number of ASICs each, are creating hash-rates that compete with large companies who own vast swathes of ASICs.
npoc 2y ago
The pseudo-anonymous design of bitcoin is perfect. It allows clear, reliable audit of the supply to detect any inflation bugs and acts as a Trojan horse into institutions that don't want an fully-anonymous asset. Anonymity can be obtained if you really want it (non-KYC on/off ramps, conjoin etc), and is also provided on higher layers/networks like Lightning If you believe Monero is superior, the market thinks otherwise: https://imgur.com/a/YfvuLWW https://imgur.com/a/YfvuLWW
- beeflet 2y ago
  Good, the market is wrong. As a trader I can only profit when there is a disparity of information like this.
  - npoc 2y ago
    A 7-year continuous downtrend with only signs of weakness, even now, is certainly quite a disparity.
    - beeflet 2y ago
      yep
- akimbostrawman 2y ago
  "pseudo" (whatever that is) anonymity without privacy is worthless since its trivial to deanonymize anything if you just follow the forever publicly visible trail. Its a detrimental weakness regardless whatever cope you try to sell it as to justifiy the numbers keep going up regardless of actual utility as currency where the price is irrelevant because the real world already shows which is used for gambling and which as exchange for value.
  - npoc 2y ago
    I have no wish to use bitcoin as a currency. Maybe one day, perhaps not in my lifetime it will become one, but I'm fine with it being the hardest liquid store of value we've ever seen and will likely ever see. It's also not trivial to "deanonymize" bitcoin. Especially if it was acquired through non-KYC and/or takes steps to add privacy (such as conjoin or non-KYC on/off ramps).