3 ms·

I think you do not understand the framework you are living under and keeping you free. After WW2 and the formation of the UN we got a new world order, the whole

by piva00 2y ago

I think you do not understand the framework you are living under and keeping you free. After WW2 and the formation of the UN we got a new world order, the whole Pax Americana is based on this order where collectively the world decided that invasions and annexation of territory is something we should all band together to fight against. They're fighting to uphold this order, to show that it's not simply yet-another-treaty that a warring nation can break and take territory from another country with few consequences, where allying to countries doing that will be met with absolute resistance to hold to this ideal. That's what we are paying for in Europe, if that doesn't have any value to you and you prefer to see it as a purely transactional interaction then go ahead to hold this opinion, other people believe in something further than simply tit-for-tat transactions. Morally speaking is a better way of living.

actionfromafar 2y ago
I gather he understands fine, he just doesn't like it. He wants Russia to win.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  Why are you making baseless accusations in bad faith? Reductionist accusatory comments like yours similar to George Bush's infamous "if you're not with us then you're against us", are what makes honest discourse impossible. Just because I don't want my tax money going to aid another country's war any further, doesn't mean I want Russia to win. I want Ukraine to win, just not with my tax money, especially knowing how corrupt Ukraine is and how luxury car sales have boomed in Ukraine in 2023-2025, maybe they should look internally for war revenue instead. I'm already doing my part housing Ukrainian refugees in my country on my tax Euros, even though a lot of them are military aged males and come with cars worth more than I make in a year.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    If you really want to see Ukraine win, I'm actually sorry. I have two follow up questions. How much do you want Ukraine to win? Are you concerned more tax Euros may be spent if Russia wins?
    - eru 2y ago
      > Are you concerned more tax Euros may be spent if Russia wins? I'm fairly sure, if Russia wins less tax Euros will be spent. That's because the European economies will be doing worse, and less GDP also means lower taxes.
  - piva00 2y ago
    > Just because I don't want my tax money going to aid another country's war any further, doesn't mean I want Russia to win. I want Ukraine to win, just not with my tax money, especially knowing how corrupt Ukraine is and how luxury car sales have boomed in Ukraine in 2023-2025 I'd like some trustworthy sources on the luxury car sales since whatever search I do return results from absolutely sketchy websites with similar naming to real news outlets ("globaleuronews.com" instead of the real "euronews.com", "news-pravda.com" [which is very much a Russian propaganda site]), or stuff named using extremely generic terms (such as "automotivelogistics.media", "good-times-invest.com", etc.). I believe you were victim of propaganda but would like to check what sources you have to challenge my assumption.
    - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
      >I believe you were victim of propaganda Which such blatant accusations it seems you've already made up your mind, and it would be a waste of time to entertain this further and go nowhere. I have already expressed all my arguments above. If you don't believe them, that's fine with me, I don't have to make you change your mind, I'm OK with you expressing a different opinion than mine, I'm not OK with you making accusations about me when you don't know me and expecting me to disprove your accusations as if I owe you that.
      - piva00 2y ago
        I explicitly asked for the sources because I could not find a reliable one and said "I believed" in the sense that it's a belief since I couldn't confirm it until you shared how you got that information. I was trying to be helpful, no need to be antagonising. Please, share your sources and we can further the discussion, no need for the defensiveness. Edit: also even if it's the case you have fallen victim to propaganda in no way I put any sense of judgment in that, anyone can be victim of disinformation, what is a failure of character is digging deeper into that belief after being shown one was bamboozled. Up to that point anyone is just another victim. > I have already expressed all my arguments above. I do not understand why questioning where your information might have come from triggered a whole meltdown, your argument might be based in disinformation (that Ukrainians have bought luxury cars and your taxes are being wasted on that) and if that's the case then your argument has no basis to it. I would like more information...

by piva00 2y ago

actionfromafar 2y ago

I gather he understands fine, he just doesn't like it. He wants Russia to win.

FirmwareBurner 2y ago
Why are you making baseless accusations in bad faith? Reductionist accusatory comments like yours similar to George Bush's infamous "if you're not with us then you're against us", are what makes honest discourse impossible. Just because I don't want my tax money going to aid another country's war any further, doesn't mean I want Russia to win. I want Ukraine to win, just not with my tax money, especially knowing how corrupt Ukraine is and how luxury car sales have boomed in Ukraine in 2023-2025, maybe they should look internally for war revenue instead. I'm already doing my part housing Ukrainian refugees in my country on my tax Euros, even though a lot of them are military aged males and come with cars worth more than I make in a year.
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  If you really want to see Ukraine win, I'm actually sorry. I have two follow up questions. How much do you want Ukraine to win? Are you concerned more tax Euros may be spent if Russia wins?
  - eru 2y ago
    > Are you concerned more tax Euros may be spent if Russia wins? I'm fairly sure, if Russia wins less tax Euros will be spent. That's because the European economies will be doing worse, and less GDP also means lower taxes.
- piva00 2y ago
  > Just because I don't want my tax money going to aid another country's war any further, doesn't mean I want Russia to win. I want Ukraine to win, just not with my tax money, especially knowing how corrupt Ukraine is and how luxury car sales have boomed in Ukraine in 2023-2025 I'd like some trustworthy sources on the luxury car sales since whatever search I do return results from absolutely sketchy websites with similar naming to real news outlets ("globaleuronews.com" instead of the real "euronews.com", "news-pravda.com" [which is very much a Russian propaganda site]), or stuff named using extremely generic terms (such as "automotivelogistics.media", "good-times-invest.com", etc.). I believe you were victim of propaganda but would like to check what sources you have to challenge my assumption.
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    >I believe you were victim of propaganda Which such blatant accusations it seems you've already made up your mind, and it would be a waste of time to entertain this further and go nowhere. I have already expressed all my arguments above. If you don't believe them, that's fine with me, I don't have to make you change your mind, I'm OK with you expressing a different opinion than mine, I'm not OK with you making accusations about me when you don't know me and expecting me to disprove your accusations as if I owe you that.
    - piva00 2y ago
      I explicitly asked for the sources because I could not find a reliable one and said "I believed" in the sense that it's a belief since I couldn't confirm it until you shared how you got that information. I was trying to be helpful, no need to be antagonising. Please, share your sources and we can further the discussion, no need for the defensiveness. Edit: also even if it's the case you have fallen victim to propaganda in no way I put any sense of judgment in that, anyone can be victim of disinformation, what is a failure of character is digging deeper into that belief after being shown one was bamboozled. Up to that point anyone is just another victim. > I have already expressed all my arguments above. I do not understand why questioning where your information might have come from triggered a whole meltdown, your argument might be based in disinformation (that Ukrainians have bought luxury cars and your taxes are being wasted on that) and if that's the case then your argument has no basis to it. I would like more information...