4 ms·

> "The main-top mast, from head to heel, was shivered into a thousand splinters..." I hadn't realised the origin (presumably) of the stereotypical naval saying

> "The main-top mast, from head to heel, was shivered into a thousand splinters..." I hadn't realised the origin (presumably) of the stereotypical naval saying "shiver me timbers" was from lightning striking masts.

gerdesj 2y ago
I've never heard the verb shivered used in that sort of context! I doubt anyone has deployed the phrase "shiver me timbers" outside of Holywood or perhaps Moby Dick. A large wooden sailing vessel does make some odd noises in a big sea. When it crests a wave and the bow (pointy end) smacks down and the next 20+' wave looks rather large and you wish you were a better person .... I could go on but you don't need lightning to shiver your timbers 8)
- defrost 2y ago
  From the O.E.D. Second (digital) Edition shivered, ppl. a. (ˈʃɪvəd) [f. shiver v.1 + -ed1.] Broken, shattered. 1542 Wyatt Poems, ‘The furious gun’, The furyous gonne‥cracketh in sonder: and in the ayer doeth rore the shevered peces. 1621 G. Sandys Ovid's Met. v. (1626) 90 And through his flesh the shiuered bones arise. 1764 Gray Welsh Fragm., Conan 8 As the thunder's fiery stroke, Glancing on the shiver'd oak. 1815 Scott Ld. of Isles iii. xii, Where Coolin stoops him to the west, They saw upon his shiver'd crest The sun's arising gleam. 1897 F. Thompson New Poems 221 Like shivered moonlight on long waters. The 1621 quote is pretty gory and visceral, someone injured so badly their bones are internally shattered into shards and knives, now sticking out through the flesh.
  - flir 2y ago
    I thought it was just a synonym for "shattered", but it does seem to be more than that - there's a lot of "oak tree + lightning" in there, and not much "oops, I dropped a milk jug". Maybe it's closer to our modern "exploded"? Here's two from 1797, both describing the same storm: "the old poor houſe was tremendously ſtruck by the lightning; the roof was entirely torn off and demoliſhed, the window frames driven in and ſhivered to pieces" and "The ship Elizabeth, retaken by the Alcmene, had her fore-top-mast shivered; as was an oak, a foot in diameter, in Yatton Church-yard." (Do you have access to the OED via a fairly cheap route? That's something I'd really like to have).
    - shakna 2y ago
      One of the synonyms we still sometimes use is "sundered".
      - gerdesj 2y ago
        Sundered has a lot of other connotations too. For example: a person might be sundered. That is not quite the same as shivered or shattered. However I will grant that: alliteratively, they all fall within the same vein. Words like these is why poetry are possible or even viable. (Soz).
  - foldr 2y ago
    I guess this is where the noun “shiv” comes from. I don’t think I’d ever heard it before playing The Last of Us.
  - gerdesj 2y ago
    "The furyous gonne‥cracketh in sonder: and in the ayer doeth rore the shevered peces." That's quite hard to translate into modern English despite all the words being fairly obvious. I'm not too sure about "in sonder" but I'll go for "like thunder". "The furious gun cracked like thunder: and in the ear it roared across the shattered peace" However, I prefer the sound of the original.
    - defrost 2y ago
      As a note of interest "Gonne" has been in use in recent times in the Discworld series: With almost supernatural power, the Gonne can possess the mind of the man who uses it. It shows him the power he has in his hands, and erases all scruples by telling him what could be achieved with this power. ~ https://wiki.lspace.org/Gonne https://wiki.lspace.org/Gonne
    - kwk1 2y ago
      "in sonder" is just "in sunder". "The furious gun cracked in sunder and in the air did roar the shivered pieces"

gerdesj 2y ago

I've never heard the verb shivered used in that sort of context! I doubt anyone has deployed the phrase "shiver me timbers" outside of Holywood or perhaps Moby Dick. A large wooden sailing vessel does make some odd noises in a big sea. When it crests a wave and the bow (pointy end) smacks down and the next 20+' wave looks rather large and you wish you were a better person .... I could go on but you don't need lightning to shiver your timbers 8)

defrost 2y ago
From the O.E.D. Second (digital) Edition shivered, ppl. a. (ˈʃɪvəd) [f. shiver v.1 + -ed1.] Broken, shattered. 1542 Wyatt Poems, ‘The furious gun’, The furyous gonne‥cracketh in sonder: and in the ayer doeth rore the shevered peces. 1621 G. Sandys Ovid's Met. v. (1626) 90 And through his flesh the shiuered bones arise. 1764 Gray Welsh Fragm., Conan 8 As the thunder's fiery stroke, Glancing on the shiver'd oak. 1815 Scott Ld. of Isles iii. xii, Where Coolin stoops him to the west, They saw upon his shiver'd crest The sun's arising gleam. 1897 F. Thompson New Poems 221 Like shivered moonlight on long waters. The 1621 quote is pretty gory and visceral, someone injured so badly their bones are internally shattered into shards and knives, now sticking out through the flesh.
- flir 2y ago
  I thought it was just a synonym for "shattered", but it does seem to be more than that - there's a lot of "oak tree + lightning" in there, and not much "oops, I dropped a milk jug". Maybe it's closer to our modern "exploded"? Here's two from 1797, both describing the same storm: "the old poor houſe was tremendously ſtruck by the lightning; the roof was entirely torn off and demoliſhed, the window frames driven in and ſhivered to pieces" and "The ship Elizabeth, retaken by the Alcmene, had her fore-top-mast shivered; as was an oak, a foot in diameter, in Yatton Church-yard." (Do you have access to the OED via a fairly cheap route? That's something I'd really like to have).
  - shakna 2y ago
    One of the synonyms we still sometimes use is "sundered".
    - gerdesj 2y ago
      Sundered has a lot of other connotations too. For example: a person might be sundered. That is not quite the same as shivered or shattered. However I will grant that: alliteratively, they all fall within the same vein. Words like these is why poetry are possible or even viable. (Soz).
- foldr 2y ago
  I guess this is where the noun “shiv” comes from. I don’t think I’d ever heard it before playing The Last of Us.
- gerdesj 2y ago
  "The furyous gonne‥cracketh in sonder: and in the ayer doeth rore the shevered peces." That's quite hard to translate into modern English despite all the words being fairly obvious. I'm not too sure about "in sonder" but I'll go for "like thunder". "The furious gun cracked like thunder: and in the ear it roared across the shattered peace" However, I prefer the sound of the original.
  - defrost 2y ago
    As a note of interest "Gonne" has been in use in recent times in the Discworld series: With almost supernatural power, the Gonne can possess the mind of the man who uses it. It shows him the power he has in his hands, and erases all scruples by telling him what could be achieved with this power. ~ https://wiki.lspace.org/Gonne https://wiki.lspace.org/Gonne
  - kwk1 2y ago
    "in sonder" is just "in sunder". "The furious gun cracked in sunder and in the air did roar the shivered pieces"