4 ms·

Badgers are protected mostly because of badger ‘baiting’ which is a medieval blood sport the populace is repulsed by yet is a persistent subculture.

zabzonk 2y ago
A bit more complicated than that. There also issues about the spread of tuberculosis to cattle which encourages badger culls, but may or may not actually happen much. Baiting is obviously horrible though. And we in the UK also have vile "sports" such as hare-coursing. But we have more or less got rid of fox hunting.
- jimnotgym 2y ago
  I'm interested that you put hare coursing in a similar category to badger baiting. I have a semi religious attachment to hares, as do many country people, so I wouldn't do it. However, coursing hares or rabbits doesn't appear more cruel than any other way of killing them to me. I think it is odd to turn it into a competition, but that shouldn't stop a solitary hunter.
  - zabzonk 2y ago
    I suppose the cruelty aspect is somewhat arguable, but the people doing coursing are almost all criminal gangs who, at the same time as coursing, do a lot of theft and damage in the rural environment here in Lincolnshire.
    - jimnotgym 2y ago
      That's ok then, there is already a law against being in a criminal gang and against stealing! I don't agree with the constant stream of legislating against things that are already illegal! (Half)joking aside, I do understand that Lincolnshire has a much worse problem than my native Welsh border country. Our smaller fields and undulating ground make coursing much more difficult. We also don't have the density of hares.
  - multjoy 2y ago
    Hare coursing is also illegal.
jimnotgym 2y ago
Yes it is typical overreaction stuff. "Badger baiting is bad, so instead of enforcing the ban on badger baiting from 1835, let's 100% protect badgers". I think there is a popular idea that badgers are rare, because badgers are nocturnal. If you venture to shine a bright torch on a field now and then you will see that they very common. Whilst baiting is a persistent sub culture, it is extremely niche. I live in a country area, and my life puts me in contact with the shooting and farming communities. I heard of baiting once ever. It is much more niche than other countryside crimes like stealing GPS units off tractors, sheep rustling, poaching etc. None of which attract attention from the public. I don't want to see animals killed, but the UK is a highly managed landscape. The badgers success has been a disaster for ground nesting birds (especially lapwings, or peewits as we call them locally) , and hedgehogs. This makes me sad. Then there is the issue of TB. Because the populace, as you put it, are so fond of badgers there has been this appalling censorship of the debate about this issue. In fact for years we had all kinds of groups pretending that there was no link between TB in badgers and TB in cows. Lets have some facts. If a dairy cow catches TB from a badger then it will be killed by the government. The herd will get constant checks and animals will keep getting killed for having antibodies present in their bloodstream. This is because the spread of TB must be stopped at all costs! That makes me sad. If a badger gets TB, it will likely infect its whole sett. It is likely to die of the disease. You can't kill them though, because badgers must be protected at all costs. I spy a logical inconsistency in those two positions.

zabzonk 2y ago

A bit more complicated than that. There also issues about the spread of tuberculosis to cattle which encourages badger culls, but may or may not actually happen much. Baiting is obviously horrible though. And we in the UK also have vile "sports" such as hare-coursing. But we have more or less got rid of fox hunting.

jimnotgym 2y ago
I'm interested that you put hare coursing in a similar category to badger baiting. I have a semi religious attachment to hares, as do many country people, so I wouldn't do it. However, coursing hares or rabbits doesn't appear more cruel than any other way of killing them to me. I think it is odd to turn it into a competition, but that shouldn't stop a solitary hunter.
- zabzonk 2y ago
  I suppose the cruelty aspect is somewhat arguable, but the people doing coursing are almost all criminal gangs who, at the same time as coursing, do a lot of theft and damage in the rural environment here in Lincolnshire.
  - jimnotgym 2y ago
    That's ok then, there is already a law against being in a criminal gang and against stealing! I don't agree with the constant stream of legislating against things that are already illegal! (Half)joking aside, I do understand that Lincolnshire has a much worse problem than my native Welsh border country. Our smaller fields and undulating ground make coursing much more difficult. We also don't have the density of hares.
- multjoy 2y ago
  Hare coursing is also illegal.

jimnotgym 2y ago

Yes it is typical overreaction stuff. "Badger baiting is bad, so instead of enforcing the ban on badger baiting from 1835, let's 100% protect badgers". I think there is a popular idea that badgers are rare, because badgers are nocturnal. If you venture to shine a bright torch on a field now and then you will see that they very common. Whilst baiting is a persistent sub culture, it is extremely niche. I live in a country area, and my life puts me in contact with the shooting and farming communities. I heard of baiting once ever. It is much more niche than other countryside crimes like stealing GPS units off tractors, sheep rustling, poaching etc. None of which attract attention from the public. I don't want to see animals killed, but the UK is a highly managed landscape. The badgers success has been a disaster for ground nesting birds (especially lapwings, or peewits as we call them locally) , and hedgehogs. This makes me sad. Then there is the issue of TB. Because the populace, as you put it, are so fond of badgers there has been this appalling censorship of the debate about this issue. In fact for years we had all kinds of groups pretending that there was no link between TB in badgers and TB in cows. Lets have some facts. If a dairy cow catches TB from a badger then it will be killed by the government. The herd will get constant checks and animals will keep getting killed for having antibodies present in their bloodstream. This is because the spread of TB must be stopped at all costs! That makes me sad. If a badger gets TB, it will likely infect its whole sett. It is likely to die of the disease. You can't kill them though, because badgers must be protected at all costs. I spy a logical inconsistency in those two positions.