3 ms·

Lately there's been a lot of fanboyism around manual transmission in online car communities. It's either just a pretend purism, or that "car" enthusiasts being

Lately there's been a lot of fanboyism around manual transmission in online car communities. It's either just a pretend purism, or that "car" enthusiasts being mostly enthused with the power plant than the whole system.

Eavolution 2y ago
I'm not a car enthusiast, however having driven both manual and automatic cars I just find driving manual cars more fun, and I imagine a lot of enthusiasts do too. I feel more in control of the car, and getting good performance feels like it's taking skill, even in a slower car. I don't think I'd find anything satisfying about driving an automatic, but faster car, in the same way.
roughly 2y ago
I think it's something that's coming about because of the level of performance reached by the average sports car - in prior eras, the actual mechanical challenge of making a car fast meant achieving higher and higher peak performance also required more engagement from the driver, and I think a lot of people implicitly conflated the two. Starting in the 2000s (and this is really where it's interesting to see the perspective here on the R35, because I recall this being a critique of the car at the time), computer-controlled transmissions, AWD, engine tuning, etc. took a lot of that out of the drivers' hands in the service of making the cars just absolutely brutally fast. EVs are the apex of this - the acceleration is ridiculous, the "skateboard" with all the heavy batteries at the bottom does wonders for keeping the cars planted, and the performance these cars can reach is astounding, but... it's boring. So now I think more people are coming around to the idea that sports car driving is not a numbers game - who can be the fastest around the lap - but an actual visceral hobby, something to engage the senses, and in many cases that almost requires the car to not be as fast or as capable as what you can get with more tech in the middle.
- anonym29 2y ago
  The R35 really was a bit of a pioneer in redefining "performance car" from some ultra-light RWD pocket rocket with white-knuckle, ****-puckering, hair-trigger inputs into some big heavy cruiser that your grandmother could comfortably drive around on a track, which is a similar philosophy to how Tesla led the EV revolution for perfomance enthusiasts and dethroned the ICE with the Plaid. Extensive computer-aided assistance and a higher weight, at the time the R35 came out, was bemoaned the same way car enthusiasts bemoan self-driving 9000lb EVs now. It was a bit ahead of it's time! I still remember the jokes about the R35 being the first performance car that came with "driver mod" from the factory :^)
Braxton1980 2y ago
Shifting manually is fun, that's it for me. It's like playing an arcade game while driving, it's more to do.
rad_gruchalski 2y ago
It’s not, having driven manuals and automatics around the Nordschleife, automatic feels so uneventful. With manual one is constantly involved. Even paddle shifting is boring.
rconti 2y ago
It's not a new thing, it's always been a popular choice in the enthusiast community. What's nice is finally the market is catching up with the manual (again). It used to be the performance choice. When the automatics/twin clutches got good in the 2000/2010 era, a lot of performance cars preferred the faster/easier transmission, and the people spending new-car money on performance cars opted for it (or were forced into it). As with many things, the new-car-money people aren't a cross section of the enthusiast community, they have different preferences. Some want the latest tech, some want their expensive purchase to be easy to drive every day, etc. But the used market has always valued the manual more highly than the new car market, and the lower-and-lower take rate of the manual in new cars means the values of the manual are stronger than ever. However, I can't remember a time when an automatic or twin clutch pulled more $ on the used market.
alienthrowaway 2y ago
God forbid someone just enjoys engaging more of their body in the act of driving. What's next, pillorying retro-computing enthusiasts and accusing them of arrested development because no one legitimately enjoys old & slow computers?

Eavolution 2y ago

I'm not a car enthusiast, however having driven both manual and automatic cars I just find driving manual cars more fun, and I imagine a lot of enthusiasts do too. I feel more in control of the car, and getting good performance feels like it's taking skill, even in a slower car. I don't think I'd find anything satisfying about driving an automatic, but faster car, in the same way.

roughly 2y ago

I think it's something that's coming about because of the level of performance reached by the average sports car - in prior eras, the actual mechanical challenge of making a car fast meant achieving higher and higher peak performance also required more engagement from the driver, and I think a lot of people implicitly conflated the two. Starting in the 2000s (and this is really where it's interesting to see the perspective here on the R35, because I recall this being a critique of the car at the time), computer-controlled transmissions, AWD, engine tuning, etc. took a lot of that out of the drivers' hands in the service of making the cars just absolutely brutally fast. EVs are the apex of this - the acceleration is ridiculous, the "skateboard" with all the heavy batteries at the bottom does wonders for keeping the cars planted, and the performance these cars can reach is astounding, but... it's boring. So now I think more people are coming around to the idea that sports car driving is not a numbers game - who can be the fastest around the lap - but an actual visceral hobby, something to engage the senses, and in many cases that almost requires the car to not be as fast or as capable as what you can get with more tech in the middle.

anonym29 2y ago
The R35 really was a bit of a pioneer in redefining "performance car" from some ultra-light RWD pocket rocket with white-knuckle, ****-puckering, hair-trigger inputs into some big heavy cruiser that your grandmother could comfortably drive around on a track, which is a similar philosophy to how Tesla led the EV revolution for perfomance enthusiasts and dethroned the ICE with the Plaid. Extensive computer-aided assistance and a higher weight, at the time the R35 came out, was bemoaned the same way car enthusiasts bemoan self-driving 9000lb EVs now. It was a bit ahead of it's time! I still remember the jokes about the R35 being the first performance car that came with "driver mod" from the factory :^)

Braxton1980 2y ago

Shifting manually is fun, that's it for me. It's like playing an arcade game while driving, it's more to do.

rad_gruchalski 2y ago

It’s not, having driven manuals and automatics around the Nordschleife, automatic feels so uneventful. With manual one is constantly involved. Even paddle shifting is boring.

rconti 2y ago

It's not a new thing, it's always been a popular choice in the enthusiast community. What's nice is finally the market is catching up with the manual (again). It used to be the performance choice. When the automatics/twin clutches got good in the 2000/2010 era, a lot of performance cars preferred the faster/easier transmission, and the people spending new-car money on performance cars opted for it (or were forced into it). As with many things, the new-car-money people aren't a cross section of the enthusiast community, they have different preferences. Some want the latest tech, some want their expensive purchase to be easy to drive every day, etc. But the used market has always valued the manual more highly than the new car market, and the lower-and-lower take rate of the manual in new cars means the values of the manual are stronger than ever. However, I can't remember a time when an automatic or twin clutch pulled more $ on the used market.

alienthrowaway 2y ago

God forbid someone just enjoys engaging more of their body in the act of driving. What's next, pillorying retro-computing enthusiasts and accusing them of arrested development because no one legitimately enjoys old & slow computers?