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I think we should revisit the policy of an actual forced savings account - rather than the bad proxies for it: social security, home equity, 401k. The general

I think we should revisit the policy of an actual forced savings account - rather than the bad proxies for it: social security, home equity, 401k. The general population is not smart enough to understand a 401k and raids it as soon as they can. The Obama administration was big on the “gentle nudge” policies - so that for example they would enroll you in retirement, but you could opt out, but I don’t think that’s strong enough.

marxisttemp 2y ago
All those stupid genpop people raiding their 401ks. Why can’t they be smart like me and have more money so they don’t need to do that?
- grandempire 2y ago
  Are you suggesting that most cases of accessing a 401k early are prudent and unavoidable?
alabastervlog 2y ago
Removing that money from contention over things like housing would be great. As it is, you either save for retirement and send you kids to worse schools than you could if you spent it instead, because other people are choosing to bid up housing rather than save for retirement, or you join them and don't have enough for retirement.
gnz11 2y ago
Social Security isn’t a savings or investment program.
- grandempire 2y ago
  Indeed. It’s some god awful combination of welfare, savings, and insurance. It needs clarification.
- from-nibly 2y ago
  It's a Rosevelte scheme. (Some people incorrectly call it a Ponzi scheme)
jordanb 2y ago
"Forced savings account" is a bad proxy for a public pension. Why, for instance, do I need to bear the risk that I might live to 100, and therefore have to save for living to 100 even though statistically I'll probably die before 85? A public pension is a "forced savings account" that pools a whole bunch of risks together across the entire population. It's forced savings plus an insurance policy. Now someone will probably say that everyone should be forced to save with a private account and also forced to carry "old age insurance" or something, but hopefully people can see that's just a public pension but worse, because you're at the mercy of middle men and grifters.
- grandempire 2y ago
  Because pooling risk is also pooling reward and about 30-40% of the US population doesn’t work.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
frgtpsswrdlame 2y ago
>I think we should revisit the policy of an actual forced savings account - rather than the bad proxies for it: social security, home equity, 401k. I think social security is a far better setup than forced savings account. The fact that it's much harder to raid, that it's not really 'your money' locked up somewhere is a big reason why it has lasted as long as it has.
- grandempire 2y ago
  Social security is simply paying out current obligations with current receipts. There is no savings or investment.
- UncleEntity 2y ago
  > The fact that it's much harder to raid... Unless you're the government and can 'borrow' the money, from yourself, as part of some creative accounting scheme. Thanks Reagan. https://www.fedsmith.com/2013/10/11/ronald-reagan-and-the-great-social-security-heist/ https://www.fedsmith.com/2013/10/11/ronald-reagan-and-the-gr...
hackeraccount 2y ago
Forced savings is someone else saving for you. How would you feel if I ran your savings and then screwed it up? Or if you had a once in a lifetime investment opportunity and I wouldn't let you dip into your savings? Or a once in a lifetime calamity and I said no, you can't touch it? Firstly you'd rightfully realize that whatever I said they weren't your savings, rather it was my money that I was agreeing to let you have at some future date. Secondly I would come to the same realization.

marxisttemp 2y ago

All those stupid genpop people raiding their 401ks. Why can’t they be smart like me and have more money so they don’t need to do that?

grandempire 2y ago
Are you suggesting that most cases of accessing a 401k early are prudent and unavoidable?

alabastervlog 2y ago

Removing that money from contention over things like housing would be great. As it is, you either save for retirement and send you kids to worse schools than you could if you spent it instead, because other people are choosing to bid up housing rather than save for retirement, or you join them and don't have enough for retirement.

gnz11 2y ago

Social Security isn’t a savings or investment program.

grandempire 2y ago
Indeed. It’s some god awful combination of welfare, savings, and insurance. It needs clarification.
from-nibly 2y ago
It's a Rosevelte scheme. (Some people incorrectly call it a Ponzi scheme)

jordanb 2y ago

"Forced savings account" is a bad proxy for a public pension. Why, for instance, do I need to bear the risk that I might live to 100, and therefore have to save for living to 100 even though statistically I'll probably die before 85? A public pension is a "forced savings account" that pools a whole bunch of risks together across the entire population. It's forced savings plus an insurance policy. Now someone will probably say that everyone should be forced to save with a private account and also forced to carry "old age insurance" or something, but hopefully people can see that's just a public pension but worse, because you're at the mercy of middle men and grifters.

grandempire 2y ago
Because pooling risk is also pooling reward and about 30-40% of the US population doesn’t work.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

frgtpsswrdlame 2y ago

>I think we should revisit the policy of an actual forced savings account - rather than the bad proxies for it: social security, home equity, 401k. I think social security is a far better setup than forced savings account. The fact that it's much harder to raid, that it's not really 'your money' locked up somewhere is a big reason why it has lasted as long as it has.

grandempire 2y ago
Social security is simply paying out current obligations with current receipts. There is no savings or investment.
UncleEntity 2y ago
> The fact that it's much harder to raid... Unless you're the government and can 'borrow' the money, from yourself, as part of some creative accounting scheme. Thanks Reagan. https://www.fedsmith.com/2013/10/11/ronald-reagan-and-the-great-social-security-heist/ https://www.fedsmith.com/2013/10/11/ronald-reagan-and-the-gr...

hackeraccount 2y ago

Forced savings is someone else saving for you. How would you feel if I ran your savings and then screwed it up? Or if you had a once in a lifetime investment opportunity and I wouldn't let you dip into your savings? Or a once in a lifetime calamity and I said no, you can't touch it? Firstly you'd rightfully realize that whatever I said they weren't your savings, rather it was my money that I was agreeing to let you have at some future date. Secondly I would come to the same realization.