7 ms·

Unless you live near a track or some really technical mountain roads a Plaid makes cars like this obsolete.

by t1234s 2y ago

rubiquity 2y ago
I own an EV and while the instant torque is fun, nothing will ever come close to the joys of driving a manual sports car.
- dinkblam 2y ago
  > nothing will ever come close to the joys of driving a manual sports car. "joy" basically means: natural aspiration, low weight, manual gearbox, rear-wheel drive, hydraulic (or unassisted) steering and no traction control or ESP
  - toast0 2y ago
    I recently got an 81 Vanagon, it's got all of that except hydraulic steering and low weight, but I only have the two front seats which helps with weight a bit, and it's probably close to a light truck weight, back when they made light trucks. It's a lot of fun. No power steering, no power windows, no power from the engine, but I get to stomp on the throttle all the time. Later model years added all sorts of bells and whistles like water cooling, power steering, and signs of life from the engine, but who needs that.
    - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2_(T3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2_(T3) Huh.
  - rubiquity 2y ago
    That’s right! There’s a reason nearly every city has a club of gutted Miatas.
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      As a six speed NB owner, am hard pressed to disagree. I haven't driven another car yet that focused so well on the things that make driving fun, while minimizing the downsides.
      - jamiedumont 2y ago
        Agreed. We bought my wife an NC last year when the criteria was “cheap, petrol, naturally aspirated and Japanese”. The criteria was in response to my Land Rover (Discovery / LR4) which is none of those things and becoming a bore. After stealing the MX-5 whenever I get the chance I now wish we could run two. That would make family trips troublesome though…
        ethbr1 2y ago
        > That would make family trips troublesome though 100%. As someone who drove said NB for a 6-hour trip twice a week for a period, it isn't the best grand tourer. ;) It did make my heart sing to dust angry jacked up trucks with 3x+ the displacement / power, but who obviously didn't understand power:weight ratio.
  - ur-whale 2y ago
    > rear-wheel drive meh, I was never a fan of those. I still remember the day I took an audi quattro (not mine, a car like that was way out of my league financially back then) for the first time up a mountain pass road near my home in the 80s. What an effing rush that was. Strongly agree for the rest of the list though and would add: "mechanical handbrake" to the list. These days cars have ugly little electronic handbrakes with a LED on it, what a load of shite.
  - usrusr 2y ago
    Ah, that joy. Had it crossing the Atlas mountain in Morocco, in a 35 HP FWD car. Low weight and simplicity, that's the key. Yeah, that won't return any time soon. At the border crossing, we shared the queue with two of the five teams (according to Wikipedia) participating in the first ever 4L Trophy. When I'm gone (well, when we're gone, me and my peers at the time), those memories will be gone, it's how it is.
  - hilsdev 2y ago
    I prefer NA but I can have a lot of joy with a proper turbo or two, or a supercharger. There’s a big difference between a turbo used to pass emissions standards and one installed for fun
- throw8394949888 2y ago
  [flagged]
- spike021 2y ago
  while i agree the only thing i’ll note here is the aforementioned GTR (R35) never came in manual. It’s definitely quite a bit lighter than the Tesla at least.
- throw8394949888 2y ago
  I love cycling way more, but then every random dog is trying to eat me. So ICE rules!
- whatever1 2y ago
  I totally agree. But why? The Evs have brutal acceleration and reach higher average speeds. We should feel some excitement, yet I don’t even bother to have a spirited drive in an EV. The super fast ones just make you feel nauseous.
Szpadel 2y ago
retro computers are also obsolete but they still have considerable amount of supporters.
dinkblam 2y ago
if you hate the process of driving then you are correct
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tashoecraft 2y ago
In the enthusiast market we're seeing the opposite. Evs have made speed routine, but dull the driving experience part. 90's and 2000's sports cars with manuals are worth sometimes 100ks more than those with paddels, even though they are slower. The gtr has been essentially the same platform since its release, when the competition has gotten extremely tight. Then there's nissan's issues, ceo getting arrested, money troubles, uninspiring lineup that mostly sells to fleets/rentals, thus leading to inability to invest in halo vehicles. If the plaid was making cars like this obsolete why are we seeing insane demand for the 911?
numpad0 2y ago
Sounds like pure cope, considering Tesla obsolescence of late + this being literally 2007 car
BoostandEthanol 2y ago
That’s if you view cars as boxes that go from A to B judged exclusively by their spec sheet. But if you viewed them as such, why would you have a Plaid instead of a basic long range S? Maybe if the driver cares about performance, but is only capable of using their right foot. The only enthusiasm is being pushed into the seat at the peak of the traction of the tyres, for all of a moment before the speed limit restricts them again. All without any other theatre. I can see the appeal of being able to have that performance without drawing attention to yourself, but then you specifically clarify your statement by excluding tracks or technical (fun) roads. …Strangely, I thought I liked the Plaid until writing this. I’m enthusiastic for what Tesla has done to the EV market, and the Model S appears to generally be a good car (all my experience is in the Model 3 my Dad has. I’d assume the experience is similar) but I can’t help but feel like they’ve made something so utterly uninteresting as their top of the line halo model. What could’ve been the GT-R of this era seems to have barely grazed the automotive community.
- Tade0 2y ago
  I don't think it could have been the GT-R of this era, because there is not going to be a GT-R of this era once R35 is gone. To paraphrase one of my favourite motoring journalists (translated): "Will EVs kill motoring? No, but only because it's already dead - tuning died several years earlier. EVs are only a transition technology. In 30 years driving will be this lame thing that only old people do." I find it hard to seriously disagree with him on that.
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    Depends on where you're at. My girlfriend's car is currently awaiting a new engine at the dealership. It'd take about 30 years to build up the infrastructure in my city (a major one in the Lower Midwest) to get to where it would need to be for her to not need anything other than public transit, and that's assuming nothing else changes (like even further urban sprawl) and that we had the political will to start today - we don't. Maybe in Europe, Asia, and a select few North American cities it'll be dead, but there will still be plenty of places where it's necessary.
Aurornis 2y ago
If your entire concept of a fast car is one that accelerates really really fast from a stoplight every once in a while, Plaid is your ticket. It does not replace cars like the R35 for people who like to drive, track, or modify cars though.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  Absolutely. My brother in law has had a Model S then an R1T, and now a Cybertruck (that he plans to sell). The acceleration is fun as hell, when you do it. 100%. Any of those three, thinking about cornering, handling, really driving, I have an RS 5, and that thing handles like it is on rails. Taking a corner too hard in his Model S and I was hanging on for dear life as I felt the control sliding away.
maximilianburke 2y ago
An added bonus is that money for the GTR doesn’t go to a nazi though.
ycombinatrix 2y ago
That is not remotely true. Maybe in the specific case you want a drag racing car with minimal effort.
randerson 2y ago
Unless you live near a drag strip I'd argue that the Plaid's one trick is wasted on public roads. 0-60 in 2 seconds is not even enjoyable for most people. But if it was, I'd like that joy to last more than 2 seconds (without losing my license). A sports car is something you wake up early on a Sunday morning to drive to a technical mountain road for no other reason than to derive pleasure from the human-machine interaction. Which you can do at legal speeds. Plenty of sports car owners do also go out of their way to visit the track. How many Plaid owners excitedly set their alarm for 5am so they can enjoy a twisty mountain road a few hours away?

Unless you live near a track or some really technical mountain roads a Plaid makes cars like this obsolete.

by t1234s 2y ago

Unless you live near a track or some really technical mountain roads a Plaid makes cars like this obsolete.

I own an EV and while the instant torque is fun, nothing will ever come close to the joys of driving a manual sports car.

dinkblam 2y ago
> nothing will ever come close to the joys of driving a manual sports car. "joy" basically means: natural aspiration, low weight, manual gearbox, rear-wheel drive, hydraulic (or unassisted) steering and no traction control or ESP
- toast0 2y ago
  I recently got an 81 Vanagon, it's got all of that except hydraulic steering and low weight, but I only have the two front seats which helps with weight a bit, and it's probably close to a light truck weight, back when they made light trucks. It's a lot of fun. No power steering, no power windows, no power from the engine, but I get to stomp on the throttle all the time. Later model years added all sorts of bells and whistles like water cooling, power steering, and signs of life from the engine, but who needs that.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2_(T3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2_(T3) Huh.
- rubiquity 2y ago
  That’s right! There’s a reason nearly every city has a club of gutted Miatas.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    As a six speed NB owner, am hard pressed to disagree. I haven't driven another car yet that focused so well on the things that make driving fun, while minimizing the downsides.
    - jamiedumont 2y ago
      Agreed. We bought my wife an NC last year when the criteria was “cheap, petrol, naturally aspirated and Japanese”. The criteria was in response to my Land Rover (Discovery / LR4) which is none of those things and becoming a bore. After stealing the MX-5 whenever I get the chance I now wish we could run two. That would make family trips troublesome though…
      - ethbr1 2y ago
        > That would make family trips troublesome though 100%. As someone who drove said NB for a 6-hour trip twice a week for a period, it isn't the best grand tourer. ;) It did make my heart sing to dust angry jacked up trucks with 3x+ the displacement / power, but who obviously didn't understand power:weight ratio.
- ur-whale 2y ago
  > rear-wheel drive meh, I was never a fan of those. I still remember the day I took an audi quattro (not mine, a car like that was way out of my league financially back then) for the first time up a mountain pass road near my home in the 80s. What an effing rush that was. Strongly agree for the rest of the list though and would add: "mechanical handbrake" to the list. These days cars have ugly little electronic handbrakes with a LED on it, what a load of shite.
- usrusr 2y ago
  Ah, that joy. Had it crossing the Atlas mountain in Morocco, in a 35 HP FWD car. Low weight and simplicity, that's the key. Yeah, that won't return any time soon. At the border crossing, we shared the queue with two of the five teams (according to Wikipedia) participating in the first ever 4L Trophy. When I'm gone (well, when we're gone, me and my peers at the time), those memories will be gone, it's how it is.
- hilsdev 2y ago
  I prefer NA but I can have a lot of joy with a proper turbo or two, or a supercharger. There’s a big difference between a turbo used to pass emissions standards and one installed for fun
throw8394949888 2y ago
[flagged]
spike021 2y ago
while i agree the only thing i’ll note here is the aforementioned GTR (R35) never came in manual. It’s definitely quite a bit lighter than the Tesla at least.
throw8394949888 2y ago
I love cycling way more, but then every random dog is trying to eat me. So ICE rules!
whatever1 2y ago
I totally agree. But why? The Evs have brutal acceleration and reach higher average speeds. We should feel some excitement, yet I don’t even bother to have a spirited drive in an EV. The super fast ones just make you feel nauseous.

Szpadel 2y ago

retro computers are also obsolete but they still have considerable amount of supporters.

dinkblam 2y ago

if you hate the process of driving then you are correct

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tashoecraft 2y ago

In the enthusiast market we're seeing the opposite. Evs have made speed routine, but dull the driving experience part. 90's and 2000's sports cars with manuals are worth sometimes 100ks more than those with paddels, even though they are slower. The gtr has been essentially the same platform since its release, when the competition has gotten extremely tight. Then there's nissan's issues, ceo getting arrested, money troubles, uninspiring lineup that mostly sells to fleets/rentals, thus leading to inability to invest in halo vehicles. If the plaid was making cars like this obsolete why are we seeing insane demand for the 911?

numpad0 2y ago

Sounds like pure cope, considering Tesla obsolescence of late + this being literally 2007 car

BoostandEthanol 2y ago

That’s if you view cars as boxes that go from A to B judged exclusively by their spec sheet. But if you viewed them as such, why would you have a Plaid instead of a basic long range S? Maybe if the driver cares about performance, but is only capable of using their right foot. The only enthusiasm is being pushed into the seat at the peak of the traction of the tyres, for all of a moment before the speed limit restricts them again. All without any other theatre. I can see the appeal of being able to have that performance without drawing attention to yourself, but then you specifically clarify your statement by excluding tracks or technical (fun) roads. …Strangely, I thought I liked the Plaid until writing this. I’m enthusiastic for what Tesla has done to the EV market, and the Model S appears to generally be a good car (all my experience is in the Model 3 my Dad has. I’d assume the experience is similar) but I can’t help but feel like they’ve made something so utterly uninteresting as their top of the line halo model. What could’ve been the GT-R of this era seems to have barely grazed the automotive community.

Tade0 2y ago
I don't think it could have been the GT-R of this era, because there is not going to be a GT-R of this era once R35 is gone. To paraphrase one of my favourite motoring journalists (translated): "Will EVs kill motoring? No, but only because it's already dead - tuning died several years earlier. EVs are only a transition technology. In 30 years driving will be this lame thing that only old people do." I find it hard to seriously disagree with him on that.
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  Depends on where you're at. My girlfriend's car is currently awaiting a new engine at the dealership. It'd take about 30 years to build up the infrastructure in my city (a major one in the Lower Midwest) to get to where it would need to be for her to not need anything other than public transit, and that's assuming nothing else changes (like even further urban sprawl) and that we had the political will to start today - we don't. Maybe in Europe, Asia, and a select few North American cities it'll be dead, but there will still be plenty of places where it's necessary.

Aurornis 2y ago

If your entire concept of a fast car is one that accelerates really really fast from a stoplight every once in a while, Plaid is your ticket. It does not replace cars like the R35 for people who like to drive, track, or modify cars though.

FireBeyond 2y ago
Absolutely. My brother in law has had a Model S then an R1T, and now a Cybertruck (that he plans to sell). The acceleration is fun as hell, when you do it. 100%. Any of those three, thinking about cornering, handling, really driving, I have an RS 5, and that thing handles like it is on rails. Taking a corner too hard in his Model S and I was hanging on for dear life as I felt the control sliding away.

maximilianburke 2y ago

An added bonus is that money for the GTR doesn’t go to a nazi though.

ycombinatrix 2y ago

That is not remotely true. Maybe in the specific case you want a drag racing car with minimal effort.

randerson 2y ago

Unless you live near a drag strip I'd argue that the Plaid's one trick is wasted on public roads. 0-60 in 2 seconds is not even enjoyable for most people. But if it was, I'd like that joy to last more than 2 seconds (without losing my license). A sports car is something you wake up early on a Sunday morning to drive to a technical mountain road for no other reason than to derive pleasure from the human-machine interaction. Which you can do at legal speeds. Plenty of sports car owners do also go out of their way to visit the track. How many Plaid owners excitedly set their alarm for 5am so they can enjoy a twisty mountain road a few hours away?