4 ms·

I agree with the notion that cheaters are only cheating themselves. However, it's in the university's interest to make sure the students it confers the degrees

I agree with the notion that cheaters are only cheating themselves. However, it's in the university's interest to make sure the students it confers the degrees upon are have met the bar to be qualified to recieve it. Otherwise, they risk losing accreditation for the program (ABET, etc.). Part of your job, or the university's job, is to provide that evaluation. Whether or not that accreditation matters at all is another question...

Clubber 2y ago
>However, it's in the university's interest to make sure the students it confers the degrees upon are have met the bar to be qualified to recieve it. Absolutely correct. Unfortunately that ship has sailed a log time ago. When I was in college in the 1990s, the program was laid out where you could learn a hell of a lot and get a great base of knowledge. You could also do just enough to get a C without really learning much. C's get degrees as we used to say. Another thing is when I was in school, cheating would get you expelled, so there was a pretty good deterrent. >Otherwise, they risk losing accreditation for the program (ABET, etc.). Part of your job, or the university's job, is to provide that evaluation. Whether or not that accreditation matters at all is another question... I haven't been paying attention, but I don't recall any state schools losing accreditation. Based on the number of candidates I get with degrees that don't know shit, this should be more common. It's definitely degraded the value of the paper, which sucks because I worked hard to get that paper.
- ghaff 2y ago
  >Another thing is when I was in school, cheating would get you expelled, so there was a pretty good deterrent. Although what constitutes cheating varies quite a bit. Working together on problems sets is OK in some places/classes but not others, having cheat sheets/formula sheets/open book is OK on some exams but not on others, some classes are explicitly group projects, etc.
  - Clubber 2y ago
    True, that's why my professors always explained the parameters of the assignment and what you were and were not allowed to do.
Jensson 2y ago
> I agree with the notion that cheaters are only cheating themselves. Everyone loses when someone cheats, not just themselves, if they only cheated themselves it wouldn't be a problem. You lose by getting incompetent bureaucrats and engineers in the future etc, even if you didn't cheat.
- xboxnolifes 2y ago
  Not only that, but it devalues degrees. If one could assume that getting through college is actually difficult and cannot be cheated on, one can assume that someone having a degree in a field means something. Someone else cheating means you need to work that much harder to convince people you know what you are doing. It's helpful to have certifications that mean something, otherwise they are just more noise.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    > Not only that, but it devalues degrees. In the US, while sadly undergraduate degrees are used as a gatekeeper, they are not valuable. They’re absolutely not worth the money spent to obtain one.
    - xboxnolifes 2y ago
      I agree that aren't valuable, that's my point. Cheating has been rampant and easy for a long time. Though, it's not just the cheating causing it.
cratermoon 2y ago
The author makes some points debunking the "cheaters are only cheating themselves" position. "One of the courses I teach is health ethics. Many of the students who enroll aspire to careers in medicine, in one form or another. Those who make it might become nurses, doctors, pharmacists, or emergency medical technicians. But whatever path they take, they will inevitably confront ethical dilemmas—some of them agonizing.... The ethical conundrums that health care workers encounter don’t arrive neatly packaged like an essay prompt. It won’t be anything you can google. Even if there were time to feed the dilemma into AI, the AI won’t help you figure out just which questions need to be asked and answered. And in real life, this is often the most difficult part. "

Clubber 2y ago

>However, it's in the university's interest to make sure the students it confers the degrees upon are have met the bar to be qualified to recieve it. Absolutely correct. Unfortunately that ship has sailed a log time ago. When I was in college in the 1990s, the program was laid out where you could learn a hell of a lot and get a great base of knowledge. You could also do just enough to get a C without really learning much. C's get degrees as we used to say. Another thing is when I was in school, cheating would get you expelled, so there was a pretty good deterrent. >Otherwise, they risk losing accreditation for the program (ABET, etc.). Part of your job, or the university's job, is to provide that evaluation. Whether or not that accreditation matters at all is another question... I haven't been paying attention, but I don't recall any state schools losing accreditation. Based on the number of candidates I get with degrees that don't know shit, this should be more common. It's definitely degraded the value of the paper, which sucks because I worked hard to get that paper.

ghaff 2y ago
>Another thing is when I was in school, cheating would get you expelled, so there was a pretty good deterrent. Although what constitutes cheating varies quite a bit. Working together on problems sets is OK in some places/classes but not others, having cheat sheets/formula sheets/open book is OK on some exams but not on others, some classes are explicitly group projects, etc.
- Clubber 2y ago
  True, that's why my professors always explained the parameters of the assignment and what you were and were not allowed to do.

Jensson 2y ago

> I agree with the notion that cheaters are only cheating themselves. Everyone loses when someone cheats, not just themselves, if they only cheated themselves it wouldn't be a problem. You lose by getting incompetent bureaucrats and engineers in the future etc, even if you didn't cheat.

xboxnolifes 2y ago
Not only that, but it devalues degrees. If one could assume that getting through college is actually difficult and cannot be cheated on, one can assume that someone having a degree in a field means something. Someone else cheating means you need to work that much harder to convince people you know what you are doing. It's helpful to have certifications that mean something, otherwise they are just more noise.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  > Not only that, but it devalues degrees. In the US, while sadly undergraduate degrees are used as a gatekeeper, they are not valuable. They’re absolutely not worth the money spent to obtain one.
  - xboxnolifes 2y ago
    I agree that aren't valuable, that's my point. Cheating has been rampant and easy for a long time. Though, it's not just the cheating causing it.

cratermoon 2y ago

The author makes some points debunking the "cheaters are only cheating themselves" position. "One of the courses I teach is health ethics. Many of the students who enroll aspire to careers in medicine, in one form or another. Those who make it might become nurses, doctors, pharmacists, or emergency medical technicians. But whatever path they take, they will inevitably confront ethical dilemmas—some of them agonizing.... The ethical conundrums that health care workers encounter don’t arrive neatly packaged like an essay prompt. It won’t be anything you can google. Even if there were time to feed the dilemma into AI, the AI won’t help you figure out just which questions need to be asked and answered. And in real life, this is often the most difficult part. "