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Give a read to Marshall Plan [0]. Under this plan, some countries are coerced to abandon building their own advanced goods (like planes), and given promises of

Give a read to Marshall Plan [0]. Under this plan, some countries are coerced to abandon building their own advanced goods (like planes), and given promises of supply from the US, fueling the technology gap with some countries in the mid-term. This plan is what made Europe to be semi-dependent on US for defense and some advanced tech. My country had to re-invent the wheel countless times to close that gap, sometimes getting flak from the US, and even some technologies are outright denied to us to keep us vulnerable in some cases. This plan is what made US a "soft-empire", though everybody signed into it because they had to. Now, the current US administration wants to discontinue these warranties, and Europe is starting the ReArm program. Another face of the US (the Greater US) is discussed in this book [1], also worth reading, which is in my reading list. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan [1]: https://www.amazon.com/How-Hide-Empire-History-Greater-ebook/dp/B07D6MGV9Y https://www.amazon.com/How-Hide-Empire-History-Greater-ebook...

tim333 2y ago
The Marshall Plan doesn't mention empire. Wikipedia defines them as >An empire is a political unit made up of several territories, military outposts, and peoples, "usually created by conquest, and divided between a dominant center and subordinate peripheries". I've sort of argued with Russian propagandists going on about Europe being part of the US empire so the Russians are only doing the same by sending tanks into Ukraine but it isn't really like that. I mean the UK is obligated to help defend the US under NATO and we did sent troops to Afgansitan on their behalf so is the US part of the British Empire or is the the UK part of the US Empire and how can we tell? Where are the viceroys? At that point I mostly get blocked. I mean you can redefine the words so everywhere that watches netflix is part of the US cultural empire but it's not empire in the traditional British Empire sense and gets a bit meaninless if you include everything.
- vaidhy 2y ago
  Seems like I like arguing.. let us go with your definition.. US has several outlying territories. US has around 800 military bases around the world. In SK and Japan (and to a large extent in Australia), US dictates the policies. The world institutions have been mostly controlled by the US without putting itself under their jurisdiction. I see one dominant center with several subordinate peripheries - in Europe, Australia, SK, Japan and the island nations of Pacific. Unlike olden days, you do not need to send people as governers directly. You only need to control the trade, defence and foreign policies.
  - tim333 2y ago
    I live in Europe / UK and I'm not aware of being in a subordinate periphery. We have cooperated with the US in opposing Russia / the USSR but I'm not aware of being in part of the US empire and you may note that now the White House has been occupied by the Kremlin and is telling Ukraine to surrender to Russia, we are telling them to sod off with that. Is the UK part of the US empire or is the US still partly part of the British Empire and how can I tell? Also re Australia, it's a long standing military ally of the US but it still a constitutional monarchy under the British crown - I think they still have Liz on some of the bank notes. I guess military cooperation trumps head of state? It all gets confusing.
    - vaidhy 2y ago
      I know it is several days, but Europe and Australia have given up their foreign policy independence in return being part of US defense umbrella. Western Europe and Australia will toe the US line pretty much always, even if it is against the detriment of their own citizens and countries. This Munich security conference is a wake-up call for EU in many ways. The speeches by JD Vance and Jeffery Sachs were both shocking in different ways. The reason you are telling US to sod off now, is primarily because you want to return to the old ways of pre-Trump. Europe really likes the NATO security umbrella and the money from US. When the old ways are threatened, you are screaming to return to the old ways. I am not seeing a Europe that is saying we will be independent. I am seeing an Europe that desperately wants a return to the predicable security umbrella.

tim333 2y ago

The Marshall Plan doesn't mention empire. Wikipedia defines them as >An empire is a political unit made up of several territories, military outposts, and peoples, "usually created by conquest, and divided between a dominant center and subordinate peripheries". I've sort of argued with Russian propagandists going on about Europe being part of the US empire so the Russians are only doing the same by sending tanks into Ukraine but it isn't really like that. I mean the UK is obligated to help defend the US under NATO and we did sent troops to Afgansitan on their behalf so is the US part of the British Empire or is the the UK part of the US Empire and how can we tell? Where are the viceroys? At that point I mostly get blocked. I mean you can redefine the words so everywhere that watches netflix is part of the US cultural empire but it's not empire in the traditional British Empire sense and gets a bit meaninless if you include everything.

vaidhy 2y ago
Seems like I like arguing.. let us go with your definition.. US has several outlying territories. US has around 800 military bases around the world. In SK and Japan (and to a large extent in Australia), US dictates the policies. The world institutions have been mostly controlled by the US without putting itself under their jurisdiction. I see one dominant center with several subordinate peripheries - in Europe, Australia, SK, Japan and the island nations of Pacific. Unlike olden days, you do not need to send people as governers directly. You only need to control the trade, defence and foreign policies.
- tim333 2y ago
  I live in Europe / UK and I'm not aware of being in a subordinate periphery. We have cooperated with the US in opposing Russia / the USSR but I'm not aware of being in part of the US empire and you may note that now the White House has been occupied by the Kremlin and is telling Ukraine to surrender to Russia, we are telling them to sod off with that. Is the UK part of the US empire or is the US still partly part of the British Empire and how can I tell? Also re Australia, it's a long standing military ally of the US but it still a constitutional monarchy under the British crown - I think they still have Liz on some of the bank notes. I guess military cooperation trumps head of state? It all gets confusing.
  - vaidhy 2y ago
    I know it is several days, but Europe and Australia have given up their foreign policy independence in return being part of US defense umbrella. Western Europe and Australia will toe the US line pretty much always, even if it is against the detriment of their own citizens and countries. This Munich security conference is a wake-up call for EU in many ways. The speeches by JD Vance and Jeffery Sachs were both shocking in different ways. The reason you are telling US to sod off now, is primarily because you want to return to the old ways of pre-Trump. Europe really likes the NATO security umbrella and the money from US. When the old ways are threatened, you are screaming to return to the old ways. I am not seeing a Europe that is saying we will be independent. I am seeing an Europe that desperately wants a return to the predicable security umbrella.