5 ms·

If the US is going to tariff heavily Canada for made up reasons [1], Canada should negotiate a more free trade agreement with China. Not completely open, but s

If the US is going to tariff heavily Canada for made up reasons [1], Canada should negotiate a more free trade agreement with China. Not completely open, but significantly more open than it is now - and encourage bilateral exchanges to make up for the surplus we will have because of the US tariffs. And then instead of importing Teslas from the US we should be importing BYD and Greelys from China. Staying dependent upon the US and having prohibitive tariffs on China while we are being pummelled by the US is not smart. We should be turning away from the US in response to this behaviour. [1] https://www.cfr.org/article/how-does-fentanyl-reach-united-states https://www.cfr.org/article/how-does-fentanyl-reach-united-s... "Canada plays virtually no role in the U.S. fentanyl influx, especially compared to the other countries. The country contributes less than 1 percent to its southern neighbor’s street fentanyl supply, as both the Canadian government and data from the DEA report."

john_texas 2y ago
[flagged]
- brookst 2y ago
  Even better would be for each Canadian province to become a state, bringing sanity to the US Senate and perhaps restoring the US to decency and the rule of law. But I don’t see why Canadians would be interested in hitching their wagon to a rapidly failing country that’s antagonizing them and their allies. Why get in bed with crazy when they’re doing just fine as is?
  - john_texas 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - hello_moto 2y ago
      And join US with infinity debt and in declined as well? Gosh darn that's just like two bad choices from the recent election no?
    - walls 2y ago
      A guy named 'john_texas' talking about 'warm water ports', could you be any more obvious?
  - bhouston 2y ago
    When the US annexes or gains new territory it generally doesn't give them federal representation for a while. Alaska was acquired in 1884, but didn't get "statehood" until 1959. Hawaii was annexed in 1900, but didn't get "statehood" until 1959. Puerto Rico was acquired in 1898, but still doesn't have "statehood." If Canada is annexed by the US there is a good chance I will be dead of old age before it gets a vote in US elections.
    - brookst 2y ago
      You think Canada can be “annexed” like alaska was?
- reaperman 2y ago
  That combo was achieved by NAFTA. No further political integration was ever required for that combo.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
cjs_ac 2y ago
Now that General Motors has shut down Holden and sold off Opel and Vauxhall to Stellantis, Ford is the only US car manufacturer that sells vehicles in significant numbers outside the Americas, and it does this by having completely different vehicle ranges on other continents. (Jeep also sells outside the Americas, but exclusively to the 'Gee, I wish I were American' crowd.) I don't trust China to produce good-quality cars at the moment (although I expect I'll have eaten my words in ten years' time), but if most of the world gets on fine without American cars, I'm sure the Canadians will too.
- bhouston 2y ago
  > I don't trust China to produce good-quality cars at the moment (although I expect I'll have eaten my words in ten years' time), but if most of the world gets on fine without American cars, I'm sure the Canadians will too. BTW other commenters on the story are saying they had great experiences with the latest Chinese cars: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43279753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43279753
- jessekv 2y ago
  Ten years is now.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Jeep is Stellantis which has a significant number of European sales. Which is not surprising, because it's a European company, not an American one.
- jajko 2y ago
  BYD = Tesla, sort of. Both have their issues. In Europe price will win, or hate for elon and if pushed enough everything-US. Other Chinese manufacturers, don't know probably lower quality, often direct copies of mostly premium German cars for fraction of the price. I used to trash everything Chinese, but years ago I got my first drone, it was from DJI. Miles ahead of anything else in that segment including both software and hardware quality and reliability. Don't judge quality of output of entire country based on some 1 dollar USB cables, they are smart and have great work ethics, plus a billion and a half headcount.
suraci 2y ago
There're only few countries with full sovereignty in this world, and Canada is not one of them
- bhouston 2y ago
  suraci wrote: > There're only few countries with full sovereignty in this world, and Canada is not one of them This sounds like the start of a discussion premised on the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman fallacy.
  - suraci 2y ago
    referencing a wikipedia page won't change the reality just wait and see what will happen next
throw0101d 2y ago
> And then instead of importing Teslas from the US we should be importing BYD and Greelys from China. There are strategic reasons why you may not want to help increase the manufacturing base of a national "competitor": > Democratic countries’ economies are mainly set up as free market economies with redistribution, because this is what maximizes living standards in peacetime. In a free market economy, if a foreign country wants to sell you cheap cars, you let them do it, and you allocate your own productive resources to something more profitable instead. If China is willing to sell you brand-new electric vehicles for $10,000, why should you turn them down? Just make B2B SaaS and advertising platforms and chat apps, sell them for a high profit margin, and drive a Chinese car. > Except then a war comes, and suddenly you find that B2B SaaS and advertising platforms and chat apps aren’t very useful for defending your freedoms. Oops! The right time to worry about manufacturing would have been years before the war, except you weren’t able to anticipate and prepare for the future. Manufacturing doesn’t just support war — in a very real way, it’s a war in and of itself. * https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/manufacturing-is-a-war-now https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/manufacturing-is-a-war-now
- bhouston 2y ago
  > There are strategic reasons why you may not want to help increase the manufacturing base of a national "competitor" From what I can tell, the US is repositioning itself as a national "competitor" to Canada. Thus based on the article you linked, Canada should significant curtail its trade with the US and start to rely upon its own industries and that of its reliable allies (looking at Europe) for military and critical infrastructure. That said, trading non critical goods with China and other countries who have not taken an aggressive war posture with us makes sense as well. Say what you will about China and their spying, but they have not actually treated to remove our sovereignty as the current leader of the US has [1]. In fact, China hasn't done anything even close to that. [1] https://time.com/7214321/trump-canada-51st-state-fox-super-bowl-interview/ https://time.com/7214321/trump-canada-51st-state-fox-super-b...
- jajko 2y ago
  How many times has China threatened Canada with invasion, taking over whole country? And US? Something about infinity. You are right, but I suspect you didn't realize its in completely opposite way if I understood you correctly. China isn't enemy of most if not all western countries in a way that it doesn't feel the need to export their system elsewhere and feeling as superior uber race, unlike russia for example. China never threatened Europe, zero zilch 0 nothing, it just wants to do business with us. US on the other hand... Maybe China is enemy of the US (not really seeing it but mkay, your fight your problem), maybe it will become enemy of US with recent potus and his a-lickers actions, but rest of the world is stopping caring about US tantrums and US-first is only about US, which is what, 4% of global population? Those that attack are our enemies. Those that don't aren't, rest are details.
csomar 2y ago
That's not going to work. China can sell cars to Canada but Canada can't sell cars to China even if there are no tariffs. Canada pulls profit from the automotive trade and that's why they are freaking out. If they were competitive on the world stage, they could divert their production somewhere else.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Canada is probably more interested in selling products like wheat, beef and pork to China which currently face significant tariff and non-tariff barriers.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Turning to a country that doesn’t support freedom of speech or press, that has already annexed and oppressed huge areas, that has killed millions of its own, is an absolutely terrible idea. The US is still a far better partner in every way, and it makes no sense to suggest such extremism.
- palata 2y ago
  You have it upside down. It's about turning away from the US because the US is being hostile.

john_texas 2y ago

[flagged]

brookst 2y ago
Even better would be for each Canadian province to become a state, bringing sanity to the US Senate and perhaps restoring the US to decency and the rule of law. But I don’t see why Canadians would be interested in hitching their wagon to a rapidly failing country that’s antagonizing them and their allies. Why get in bed with crazy when they’re doing just fine as is?
- john_texas 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - hello_moto 2y ago
    And join US with infinity debt and in declined as well? Gosh darn that's just like two bad choices from the recent election no?
  - walls 2y ago
    A guy named 'john_texas' talking about 'warm water ports', could you be any more obvious?
- bhouston 2y ago
  When the US annexes or gains new territory it generally doesn't give them federal representation for a while. Alaska was acquired in 1884, but didn't get "statehood" until 1959. Hawaii was annexed in 1900, but didn't get "statehood" until 1959. Puerto Rico was acquired in 1898, but still doesn't have "statehood." If Canada is annexed by the US there is a good chance I will be dead of old age before it gets a vote in US elections.
  - brookst 2y ago
    You think Canada can be “annexed” like alaska was?
reaperman 2y ago
That combo was achieved by NAFTA. No further political integration was ever required for that combo.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

cjs_ac 2y ago

Now that General Motors has shut down Holden and sold off Opel and Vauxhall to Stellantis, Ford is the only US car manufacturer that sells vehicles in significant numbers outside the Americas, and it does this by having completely different vehicle ranges on other continents. (Jeep also sells outside the Americas, but exclusively to the 'Gee, I wish I were American' crowd.) I don't trust China to produce good-quality cars at the moment (although I expect I'll have eaten my words in ten years' time), but if most of the world gets on fine without American cars, I'm sure the Canadians will too.

bhouston 2y ago
> I don't trust China to produce good-quality cars at the moment (although I expect I'll have eaten my words in ten years' time), but if most of the world gets on fine without American cars, I'm sure the Canadians will too. BTW other commenters on the story are saying they had great experiences with the latest Chinese cars: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43279753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43279753
jessekv 2y ago
Ten years is now.
bryanlarsen 2y ago
Jeep is Stellantis which has a significant number of European sales. Which is not surprising, because it's a European company, not an American one.
jajko 2y ago
BYD = Tesla, sort of. Both have their issues. In Europe price will win, or hate for elon and if pushed enough everything-US. Other Chinese manufacturers, don't know probably lower quality, often direct copies of mostly premium German cars for fraction of the price. I used to trash everything Chinese, but years ago I got my first drone, it was from DJI. Miles ahead of anything else in that segment including both software and hardware quality and reliability. Don't judge quality of output of entire country based on some 1 dollar USB cables, they are smart and have great work ethics, plus a billion and a half headcount.

suraci 2y ago

There're only few countries with full sovereignty in this world, and Canada is not one of them

bhouston 2y ago
suraci wrote: > There're only few countries with full sovereignty in this world, and Canada is not one of them This sounds like the start of a discussion premised on the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman fallacy.
- suraci 2y ago
  referencing a wikipedia page won't change the reality just wait and see what will happen next

throw0101d 2y ago

> And then instead of importing Teslas from the US we should be importing BYD and Greelys from China. There are strategic reasons why you may not want to help increase the manufacturing base of a national "competitor": > Democratic countries’ economies are mainly set up as free market economies with redistribution, because this is what maximizes living standards in peacetime. In a free market economy, if a foreign country wants to sell you cheap cars, you let them do it, and you allocate your own productive resources to something more profitable instead. If China is willing to sell you brand-new electric vehicles for $10,000, why should you turn them down? Just make B2B SaaS and advertising platforms and chat apps, sell them for a high profit margin, and drive a Chinese car. > Except then a war comes, and suddenly you find that B2B SaaS and advertising platforms and chat apps aren’t very useful for defending your freedoms. Oops! The right time to worry about manufacturing would have been years before the war, except you weren’t able to anticipate and prepare for the future. Manufacturing doesn’t just support war — in a very real way, it’s a war in and of itself. * https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/manufacturing-is-a-war-now https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/manufacturing-is-a-war-now

bhouston 2y ago
> There are strategic reasons why you may not want to help increase the manufacturing base of a national "competitor" From what I can tell, the US is repositioning itself as a national "competitor" to Canada. Thus based on the article you linked, Canada should significant curtail its trade with the US and start to rely upon its own industries and that of its reliable allies (looking at Europe) for military and critical infrastructure. That said, trading non critical goods with China and other countries who have not taken an aggressive war posture with us makes sense as well. Say what you will about China and their spying, but they have not actually treated to remove our sovereignty as the current leader of the US has [1]. In fact, China hasn't done anything even close to that. [1] https://time.com/7214321/trump-canada-51st-state-fox-super-bowl-interview/ https://time.com/7214321/trump-canada-51st-state-fox-super-b...
jajko 2y ago
How many times has China threatened Canada with invasion, taking over whole country? And US? Something about infinity. You are right, but I suspect you didn't realize its in completely opposite way if I understood you correctly. China isn't enemy of most if not all western countries in a way that it doesn't feel the need to export their system elsewhere and feeling as superior uber race, unlike russia for example. China never threatened Europe, zero zilch 0 nothing, it just wants to do business with us. US on the other hand... Maybe China is enemy of the US (not really seeing it but mkay, your fight your problem), maybe it will become enemy of US with recent potus and his a-lickers actions, but rest of the world is stopping caring about US tantrums and US-first is only about US, which is what, 4% of global population? Those that attack are our enemies. Those that don't aren't, rest are details.

csomar 2y ago

That's not going to work. China can sell cars to Canada but Canada can't sell cars to China even if there are no tariffs. Canada pulls profit from the automotive trade and that's why they are freaking out. If they were competitive on the world stage, they could divert their production somewhere else.

bryanlarsen 2y ago
Canada is probably more interested in selling products like wheat, beef and pork to China which currently face significant tariff and non-tariff barriers.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

Turning to a country that doesn’t support freedom of speech or press, that has already annexed and oppressed huge areas, that has killed millions of its own, is an absolutely terrible idea. The US is still a far better partner in every way, and it makes no sense to suggest such extremism.

palata 2y ago
You have it upside down. It's about turning away from the US because the US is being hostile.