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I know this could be said of any country at any time, but please don't conflate the current administration with the whole American people. Many, many of us are

I know this could be said of any country at any time, but please don't conflate the current administration with the whole American people. Many, many of us are bewildered by Trump's actions, and consider him a some inscrutable mix of evil, stupid, and deranged. I'm not even politically left (I'm pretty centrist), and I know I'm not alone in being perplexed by how he won the election.

bayindirh 2y ago
> but please don't conflate the current administration with the whole American people. No, never. I have enough experience on that matter due to where I live and due to friends I have all over Europe and US. People and the administration of the country they happen to born/live in are completely detached in my mind.
- monkey_monkey 2y ago
  Who do you think votes in the administation of a country?
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    Yes, people, and not all my friends and relatives might share the same values with me. That's OK. However, sometimes people get more than what they bargained for, and I'm sure some people are in that situation right now. Look, I'm from a country which is going through the exact process. It's much more complicated than that. It'd fill books.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - threetonesun 2y ago
      I also have friends and relatives with different values, it's very hard to relate to them voting Republican again after what we went through with COVID. Had the party nominated someone else, maybe, but doing this again after all we knew already?
      - brookst 2y ago
        There’s always been a streak of self-loathing and nihilism in the US. Some kind of imposter syndrome writ large and handled with fake arrogance and real terror.
cesarb 2y ago
> I know this could be said of any country at any time, but please don't conflate the current administration with the whole American people. [...] and I know I'm not alone in being perplexed by how he won the election. The current administration didn't grow in a vacuum. It might not be the whole of the USA people, but a large enough fraction of the USA people supported the current administration, otherwise there would be no chance of it getting elected, even with all the brokenness of the USA electoral system. And the current administration still has a large enough support from the USA people, otherwise they could do nothing: the government is not some mechanical device which blindly follows the wishes of whoever is in command, it operates through people, and if all the people rejected the current administration, its orders would have no effect.
- ramses0 2y ago
  I live in Texas, I didn't vote for Trump. It's 20hrs by car to Washington DC. Trump is firing people at random, Musk is plugging his USB drive into all the databases, what can I practically do to "reject the current administration"? Keeping in mind that the majority of what he's doing is a political "Gish Gallop" (https://effectiviology.com/gish-gallop/ https://effectiviology.com/gish-gallop/ ), as in "Gulf of America" to hide the meat of selling the FBI and Department of Justice buildings (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-administration-took-down-its-list-of-hundreds-of-federal-buildings-targeted-for-potential-sale https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-administration-t...), installing the newscaster of a propaganda network (https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/media/fox-news-reliable-sources/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/media/fox-news-reliable-sourc...) as the Secretary of Defense, dismantling USAID, and otherwise doing everything in his immediate power to break the bones of the US government? Anything of consequence (eg: Civil War 2.0) is "even better" for Russia than what's going on now. It's a horrifically complicated judo flip of nation-state proportions. Please get your act together, EU!
- bloomingeek 2y ago
  A high percentage of people here in the states were so disgusted with the GOP, they foolishly didn't vote. Now, the only thing that can bring any relief, is the US Constitution. If followed, it will right the ship, hopefully at the mid-terms.
psychlops 2y ago
He won mostly because his opponent was even worse. The US deserves better choices.
- monkey_monkey 2y ago
  The US deserves the administration it has and all the consequences that will flow from it.
- brookst 2y ago
  “Even worse” is an odd way to say “black woman”. I am not accusing you of sexism or racism; I am saying there is enough sexism and racism in the US to account for the difference in total popular vote, and certainly to account for the 115k votes that won the election for Trump. Had Walz been top of the ticket with exactly the same campaign and policies, he would have won. It sucks and it’s an indictment of the country, but pretending otherwise doesn’t help.
  - tim333 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - Aloisius 2y ago
      So it wasn't just that she is a black woman, but also that you believe she was a DEI hire because she is a black woman?
      - tim333 2y ago
        Maybe that wasn't the best way to put it but did you see her on stage saying 200 million Americans died from covid? Twice. I think someone of even moderate competence would be able to figure it's not true over half the US population was dead. It seems to me the only way she was lined up to be president was for reasons other than competence.
        2y ago
Majromax 2y ago
> please don't conflate the current administration with the whole American people. The whole? No, of course no leader should ever be conflated with the whole people of a country. A plurality, however? Definitely. Trump won an evidently free and fair election, growing his vote-share over essentially the whole country. He has not conducted a heel-face turn since entering office, and his actions are broadly consistent with his campaign statements. Moreover, Trump isn't the only elected official in the federal government. If Trump were some aberration then Congress would have every ability to thwart his agenda or remove him from office; they have not. The majority-Republican Congress approved even his controversial cabinet nominees on party-line votes, and to my knowledge they have not taken any major investigative or punitive steps since. A majority of American voters may not have voted specifically for this, but they did vote for the party and candidate who are content to allow this to happen in the supposed service of other goals. Voters who earnestly believe the misinformation shared by demagogues and social media are a tragic case, but that does not excuse voters who 'voted with their wallet,' foreswearing their obligation to the common good in hopes of a tax cut. Do not mistake me for a rabid partisan. I do not let the Democrats off the hook either for reasons that are another rant and are directionally in alignment with Nate Silver's published opinions.
- hotsauceror 2y ago
  I agree. Mr. Trump can credibly argue that he received a mandate at the last election. It was not a squeaker, a “hold-your-nose-and-vote”, it was convincing and, as you say, cleanly won vote. America knew exactly who he was, and has known for some time. He was very clear in his statements what he was going to do when he was elected, who he was going to use to do it, and he is following through. all but one of the most controversial cabinet nominees sailed through their confirmations with flying colors, with barely token opposition from those who made a great public show of “being on the fence,” as we knew they would. Part of me is curious to know exactly what those who “vote with their wallets” would abide. It is unfortunate for them that their Faustian bargain is turning out not to be true, and that neither inflation, nor the cost of living, has or will go down, and that services that they and their loved ones may rely on are being dismantled, but they were candidly advised that this would be the case.
Zigurd 2y ago
There are dozens to maybe hundreds of moving parts when you set about to influence another country's politics. Conspiracy theories about hacking voting machines can't be confirmed. But an adversary would do it if they could. It's certain that they're doing just about everything else from co-opting religion to degrading the quality and availability of public information to bribing and/or coercing politicians. It's a war, just not a shooting war.

bayindirh 2y ago

> but please don't conflate the current administration with the whole American people. No, never. I have enough experience on that matter due to where I live and due to friends I have all over Europe and US. People and the administration of the country they happen to born/live in are completely detached in my mind.

monkey_monkey 2y ago
Who do you think votes in the administation of a country?
- bayindirh 2y ago
  Yes, people, and not all my friends and relatives might share the same values with me. That's OK. However, sometimes people get more than what they bargained for, and I'm sure some people are in that situation right now. Look, I'm from a country which is going through the exact process. It's much more complicated than that. It'd fill books.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - threetonesun 2y ago
    I also have friends and relatives with different values, it's very hard to relate to them voting Republican again after what we went through with COVID. Had the party nominated someone else, maybe, but doing this again after all we knew already?
    - brookst 2y ago
      There’s always been a streak of self-loathing and nihilism in the US. Some kind of imposter syndrome writ large and handled with fake arrogance and real terror.

cesarb 2y ago

> I know this could be said of any country at any time, but please don't conflate the current administration with the whole American people. [...] and I know I'm not alone in being perplexed by how he won the election. The current administration didn't grow in a vacuum. It might not be the whole of the USA people, but a large enough fraction of the USA people supported the current administration, otherwise there would be no chance of it getting elected, even with all the brokenness of the USA electoral system. And the current administration still has a large enough support from the USA people, otherwise they could do nothing: the government is not some mechanical device which blindly follows the wishes of whoever is in command, it operates through people, and if all the people rejected the current administration, its orders would have no effect.

ramses0 2y ago
I live in Texas, I didn't vote for Trump. It's 20hrs by car to Washington DC. Trump is firing people at random, Musk is plugging his USB drive into all the databases, what can I practically do to "reject the current administration"? Keeping in mind that the majority of what he's doing is a political "Gish Gallop" (https://effectiviology.com/gish-gallop/ https://effectiviology.com/gish-gallop/ ), as in "Gulf of America" to hide the meat of selling the FBI and Department of Justice buildings (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-administration-took-down-its-list-of-hundreds-of-federal-buildings-targeted-for-potential-sale https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-administration-t...), installing the newscaster of a propaganda network (https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/media/fox-news-reliable-sources/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/media/fox-news-reliable-sourc...) as the Secretary of Defense, dismantling USAID, and otherwise doing everything in his immediate power to break the bones of the US government? Anything of consequence (eg: Civil War 2.0) is "even better" for Russia than what's going on now. It's a horrifically complicated judo flip of nation-state proportions. Please get your act together, EU!
bloomingeek 2y ago
A high percentage of people here in the states were so disgusted with the GOP, they foolishly didn't vote. Now, the only thing that can bring any relief, is the US Constitution. If followed, it will right the ship, hopefully at the mid-terms.

psychlops 2y ago

He won mostly because his opponent was even worse. The US deserves better choices.

monkey_monkey 2y ago
The US deserves the administration it has and all the consequences that will flow from it.
brookst 2y ago
“Even worse” is an odd way to say “black woman”. I am not accusing you of sexism or racism; I am saying there is enough sexism and racism in the US to account for the difference in total popular vote, and certainly to account for the 115k votes that won the election for Trump. Had Walz been top of the ticket with exactly the same campaign and policies, he would have won. It sucks and it’s an indictment of the country, but pretending otherwise doesn’t help.
- tim333 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - Aloisius 2y ago
    So it wasn't just that she is a black woman, but also that you believe she was a DEI hire because she is a black woman?
    - tim333 2y ago
      Maybe that wasn't the best way to put it but did you see her on stage saying 200 million Americans died from covid? Twice. I think someone of even moderate competence would be able to figure it's not true over half the US population was dead. It seems to me the only way she was lined up to be president was for reasons other than competence.
      - 2y ago

Majromax 2y ago

> please don't conflate the current administration with the whole American people. The whole? No, of course no leader should ever be conflated with the whole people of a country. A plurality, however? Definitely. Trump won an evidently free and fair election, growing his vote-share over essentially the whole country. He has not conducted a heel-face turn since entering office, and his actions are broadly consistent with his campaign statements. Moreover, Trump isn't the only elected official in the federal government. If Trump were some aberration then Congress would have every ability to thwart his agenda or remove him from office; they have not. The majority-Republican Congress approved even his controversial cabinet nominees on party-line votes, and to my knowledge they have not taken any major investigative or punitive steps since. A majority of American voters may not have voted specifically for this, but they did vote for the party and candidate who are content to allow this to happen in the supposed service of other goals. Voters who earnestly believe the misinformation shared by demagogues and social media are a tragic case, but that does not excuse voters who 'voted with their wallet,' foreswearing their obligation to the common good in hopes of a tax cut. Do not mistake me for a rabid partisan. I do not let the Democrats off the hook either for reasons that are another rant and are directionally in alignment with Nate Silver's published opinions.

hotsauceror 2y ago
I agree. Mr. Trump can credibly argue that he received a mandate at the last election. It was not a squeaker, a “hold-your-nose-and-vote”, it was convincing and, as you say, cleanly won vote. America knew exactly who he was, and has known for some time. He was very clear in his statements what he was going to do when he was elected, who he was going to use to do it, and he is following through. all but one of the most controversial cabinet nominees sailed through their confirmations with flying colors, with barely token opposition from those who made a great public show of “being on the fence,” as we knew they would. Part of me is curious to know exactly what those who “vote with their wallets” would abide. It is unfortunate for them that their Faustian bargain is turning out not to be true, and that neither inflation, nor the cost of living, has or will go down, and that services that they and their loved ones may rely on are being dismantled, but they were candidly advised that this would be the case.

Zigurd 2y ago

There are dozens to maybe hundreds of moving parts when you set about to influence another country's politics. Conspiracy theories about hacking voting machines can't be confirmed. But an adversary would do it if they could. It's certain that they're doing just about everything else from co-opting religion to degrading the quality and availability of public information to bribing and/or coercing politicians. It's a war, just not a shooting war.