5 ms·

Yeah... "used to"... 20 years ago. Now it's one standard dvd-case sized box with one sheet of paper and a cd... or not even a cd, but just a download code. Th

Yeah... "used to"... 20 years ago. Now it's one standard dvd-case sized box with one sheet of paper and a cd... or not even a cd, but just a download code. The good thing about CDs is, that you can archive them and use them even after 10, 20, 30 years, you cannot do so with steam, if they decide to remove that game or when eventually steam disappears. On the other hand, many games don't even work anymore without an internet connection and some backend service (that'll disappear soon), even single player ones.

tsimionescu 2y ago
Honestly, I've had many more game CDs (or DVDs) fail than I've lost access to Steam games. Sure, in the long run, physical storage beats anything, but in the medium term, and for regular users, it's actually very likely to deteriorate quickly.
- mathgeek 2y ago
  In the long term, most original physical media will degrade over a few decades. It's the ability to create new backups/copies and port media to new formats that beats everything.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    Pressed media will last an incredibly long time if produced correctly and not subjected to violence.
    - mathgeek 2y ago
      Some CD-specific stats here from about 16 years ago at the Library of Congress (which thankfully disregards CD-R's and the like): https://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/rt/CDservicelife_rev.pdf https://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/rt/CDservicelife_...
      - actionfromafar 2y ago
        If I read that correctly, about half of the CDs will have failed after 200 years.
        mathgeek 2y ago
        That's my reading of it as well. For personal archival purposes, that's very risky. For "some of it will survive" purposes it's great.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  Sure, but you can rip it, save it, backup it, restore it from a backup, "download the backup from a torrent site", etc. It stays available. Even other media, like gameboy/nes/snes/... cartridges can be ripped and stored for eternity, and full game collections are easy to store on current storage mediums. Most people will play the game when they buy it, for some time... in modernish times, the cd/dvd will be used only once (no one expects you to keep the cd in the drive anymore when playing), so the disc should be good for a decade+, much more than most of the modern game services stay online, and requiring them even for single player games is a scam.
themaninthedark 2y ago
>you cannot do so with steam, if they decide to remove that game I am not aware of any case in which the game was removed from Steam and made unavailable to those who purchased it. I have several games in my Steam library where they stopped offering for sale and I can still download and play. I also have one game I can download but not play since the publisher took the backend servers offline. Steam is still hosting the installer.
- rincebrain 2y ago
  I think the two key points are that 1) you are at Steam's mercy to do that, regardless of whether they are a good actor now and 2) unless the dev actively set up branches for you to use, I don't think Steam lets you easily play older versions, so it's nontrivial to play the game as it was "at release", if that's your goal.
  - themaninthedark 2y ago
    No, you can't easily play a game "as released" with today's model. However, on the other hand, how many old games can you only play "as released" as the developer and/or publisher has gone out of business and the patches are no longer hosted? Of the two, which is a greater impact? I know of many games with bugs, some even showstopping ones and can't think of any game that I want to play "as released" because the patch makes things worse.
    - rincebrain 2y ago
      It depends on your goals. Speedrunners, for instance, often prefer very specific releases of games, because they rely on glitches that have since been fixed. Sometimes the latest rev a dev shipped before falling off the planet has game-changing behaviors, like stripping all the licensed music because you lost the license.
- Larrikin 2y ago
  Even if Steam remains a perfect platform that always fights for the player, why do you assume that Steam will be around as a company in 30 years, 10 years, or even one? Physical games or a model like Gog ensure you will be able to play the games in the future. Digital games where you can't transfer the offline installer to any platform you want is trading convenience today for a guarantee you will buy or pirate it in the future.
ozmodiar 2y ago
That's why I always try to buy from Gog. They have a commitment that you should be able to download the game, back it up to whatever media you like, and play it without an internet connection. Of course this means you can't find everything there, but they still have a good selection and I think it's an important mission. The internet is surprisingly ephemeral.
AdmiralAsshat 2y ago
The loss of manuals has been a pet peeve of mine. Like I need an internet connection just to see what the controls are. We live in an era of extremes now. You either get an all-digital experience, an anemic cartridge/disc only experience, or a lavish, $100+ omake box from someone like Limited Run Games with a crapton of extras that the vast majority of people never actually see or use in-person, because paradoxically the people who can afford the lavish deluxe boxes are also the people who will never open them out of fear of ruining the "collectible" value. I miss the era of the middle-ground, in which a Standard Edition came with a physical game, case, and manual, and the Collector's Edition maybe contained a metal tin instead of the standard plastic case. Even for games I really like, where I might be encouraged to get a collector's edition--I don't think a freaking card game included with my videogame to extract more dollars from me[0]. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Unicorn-Overlord-Collectors-Monarch-PlayStation-5/dp/B0CJ3Z5KP6 https://www.amazon.com/Unicorn-Overlord-Collectors-Monarch-P...

tsimionescu 2y ago

Honestly, I've had many more game CDs (or DVDs) fail than I've lost access to Steam games. Sure, in the long run, physical storage beats anything, but in the medium term, and for regular users, it's actually very likely to deteriorate quickly.

mathgeek 2y ago
In the long term, most original physical media will degrade over a few decades. It's the ability to create new backups/copies and port media to new formats that beats everything.
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  Pressed media will last an incredibly long time if produced correctly and not subjected to violence.
  - mathgeek 2y ago
    Some CD-specific stats here from about 16 years ago at the Library of Congress (which thankfully disregards CD-R's and the like): https://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/rt/CDservicelife_rev.pdf https://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/rt/CDservicelife_...
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      If I read that correctly, about half of the CDs will have failed after 200 years.
      - mathgeek 2y ago
        That's my reading of it as well. For personal archival purposes, that's very risky. For "some of it will survive" purposes it's great.
ajsnigrutin 2y ago
Sure, but you can rip it, save it, backup it, restore it from a backup, "download the backup from a torrent site", etc. It stays available. Even other media, like gameboy/nes/snes/... cartridges can be ripped and stored for eternity, and full game collections are easy to store on current storage mediums. Most people will play the game when they buy it, for some time... in modernish times, the cd/dvd will be used only once (no one expects you to keep the cd in the drive anymore when playing), so the disc should be good for a decade+, much more than most of the modern game services stay online, and requiring them even for single player games is a scam.

themaninthedark 2y ago

>you cannot do so with steam, if they decide to remove that game I am not aware of any case in which the game was removed from Steam and made unavailable to those who purchased it. I have several games in my Steam library where they stopped offering for sale and I can still download and play. I also have one game I can download but not play since the publisher took the backend servers offline. Steam is still hosting the installer.

rincebrain 2y ago
I think the two key points are that 1) you are at Steam's mercy to do that, regardless of whether they are a good actor now and 2) unless the dev actively set up branches for you to use, I don't think Steam lets you easily play older versions, so it's nontrivial to play the game as it was "at release", if that's your goal.
- themaninthedark 2y ago
  No, you can't easily play a game "as released" with today's model. However, on the other hand, how many old games can you only play "as released" as the developer and/or publisher has gone out of business and the patches are no longer hosted? Of the two, which is a greater impact? I know of many games with bugs, some even showstopping ones and can't think of any game that I want to play "as released" because the patch makes things worse.
  - rincebrain 2y ago
    It depends on your goals. Speedrunners, for instance, often prefer very specific releases of games, because they rely on glitches that have since been fixed. Sometimes the latest rev a dev shipped before falling off the planet has game-changing behaviors, like stripping all the licensed music because you lost the license.
Larrikin 2y ago
Even if Steam remains a perfect platform that always fights for the player, why do you assume that Steam will be around as a company in 30 years, 10 years, or even one? Physical games or a model like Gog ensure you will be able to play the games in the future. Digital games where you can't transfer the offline installer to any platform you want is trading convenience today for a guarantee you will buy or pirate it in the future.

ozmodiar 2y ago

That's why I always try to buy from Gog. They have a commitment that you should be able to download the game, back it up to whatever media you like, and play it without an internet connection. Of course this means you can't find everything there, but they still have a good selection and I think it's an important mission. The internet is surprisingly ephemeral.

AdmiralAsshat 2y ago

The loss of manuals has been a pet peeve of mine. Like I need an internet connection just to see what the controls are. We live in an era of extremes now. You either get an all-digital experience, an anemic cartridge/disc only experience, or a lavish, $100+ omake box from someone like Limited Run Games with a crapton of extras that the vast majority of people never actually see or use in-person, because paradoxically the people who can afford the lavish deluxe boxes are also the people who will never open them out of fear of ruining the "collectible" value. I miss the era of the middle-ground, in which a Standard Edition came with a physical game, case, and manual, and the Collector's Edition maybe contained a metal tin instead of the standard plastic case. Even for games I really like, where I might be encouraged to get a collector's edition--I don't think a freaking card game included with my videogame to extract more dollars from me[0]. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Unicorn-Overlord-Collectors-Monarch-PlayStation-5/dp/B0CJ3Z5KP6 https://www.amazon.com/Unicorn-Overlord-Collectors-Monarch-P...