4 ms·

IDK whether you know it, but in case you don't—you articulated Cippola's definition "stupid is one causing harm to others while not deriving any gain, even taki

IDK whether you know it, but in case you don't—you articulated Cippola's definition "stupid is one causing harm to others while not deriving any gain, even taking a small personal loss" above. If you are interested further, I encourage you to check his pamphlet "The Basic Laws Of Human Stupidity". (is "book" too big word for it?) I must say I got a lot out of it and it's followups. It became much easier for me to understand the world around me, what is happening. And even predict what's to happen sometimes. What you observe with Trump admin: 1) it's stupidity; 2) it's not low IQ or lack of rationality; 3) it's lack of morals, not caring about good/bad, or even considering good what the rest consider bad (and vice versa); 4) it's social more than individual, it's a "mind virus". (ha!-Musk) Bonhoeffer‘s "Theory of Stupidity" https://youtube.com/watch?v=ww47bR86wSc https://youtube.com/watch?v=ww47bR86wSc (bad morals not low IQ, mind virus social more than individual) Sabine Hossenfelder "Collective Stupidity -- How Can We Avoid It?" https://youtube.com/watch?v=25kqobiv4ng https://youtube.com/watch?v=25kqobiv4ng (more cases, much more analytical, only about the group aspect not individual)

robertlagrant 2y ago
> you articulated Cippola's definition "stupid is one causing harm to others while not deriving any gain, even taking a small personal loss" No need to redefine stupid. We have a word already for that: spite.
- ljosifov 2y ago
  I don't necessarily disagree on the need - but it's not my (re)definition. Having said that - I rather like the use. "Stupid" is part of quartet. All humans are categorised in four categories: intelligent (I), helpless (H), stupid (S), bandit (B). In X-Y coordinate system, by quadrant Q, actions taken by Tom, that affect both Tom (on X-axis) and Dick (on Y-axis): - Q1 (+,+) Tom gain and Dick gain => Tom was intelligent (I). - Q2 (-,+) Tom loss and Dick gain => Tom was helpless (H). - Q3 (-,-) Tom loss and Dick loss => Tom was stupid (S). - Q4 (+,-) Tom gain and Dick loss => Tom was a bandit (B). Specifically on the S-Stupid in quadrant Q3 (-,-): + There is no upper bound on the amount of stupidity that can exist within any particular individual. + We always underestimate the number of stupid people. + The probability of a person being stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person. + A stupid person is someone who causes damage to another person, or a group of people, without any advantage accruing to himself (or herself), or even with some resultant self-damage. (Golden law of stupidity) + Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid people, and that it's impossible to predict the actions of the stupid. + A stupid person S is the most dangerous person (compared to I, H, B), and crucially stupid S is more dangerous than a bandit B. This is all on individual one unit level. Another relevant observation I can think of is Bismarck-ian most dangerous general — stupid and energetic. Bonhoeffer is the one to make a connection to morality. That looks very important observation to me. And that it happens in groups, like a mind virus-I can see that. Sabine's video is all about collective stupidity. (Extraordinary Popular Delusions as a mirror image to Wisdom of crowds.)
beloch 2y ago
I am familiar with this definition of stupidity as well as the Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." The thing is, I don't think what Trump is doing is adequately explained by stupidity. He's going well out of his way to harm the U.S.'s own interests in a way that, by too-strange a coincidence, helps Russia.
- DFHippie 2y ago
  Yep. If Putin managed to install a Trojan Horse president bent on attacking the country internally on all fronts, that president would do what Trump is doing. What's flabbergasting is how the Republican Party is enabling this. I thought they had more self-respect. I think the dam will break and many people will start pretending they never supported Trump. And I think this Trump's minders know this, which is why they're destroying everything with such haste. They know they have limited time to gut the country.
  - chuckadams 2y ago
    That's been the Republican MO since the 90's: break everything, then blame the Democrats for not cleaning up the mess fast enough. I always expected that behavior. What I never thought I'd live to see was watching the Republican Party of all people outright turn into a Russian fifth column.
    - TheOtherHobbes 2y ago
      It shouldn't be a surprise to see greedy selfish people being corrupted by foreign money. Russia is neither the first nor the only country to be doing this in the US.
      - chuckadams 2y ago
        I think "Russia, if you're listening" goes well beyond just foreign money.

robertlagrant 2y ago

> you articulated Cippola's definition "stupid is one causing harm to others while not deriving any gain, even taking a small personal loss" No need to redefine stupid. We have a word already for that: spite.

ljosifov 2y ago
I don't necessarily disagree on the need - but it's not my (re)definition. Having said that - I rather like the use. "Stupid" is part of quartet. All humans are categorised in four categories: intelligent (I), helpless (H), stupid (S), bandit (B). In X-Y coordinate system, by quadrant Q, actions taken by Tom, that affect both Tom (on X-axis) and Dick (on Y-axis): - Q1 (+,+) Tom gain and Dick gain => Tom was intelligent (I). - Q2 (-,+) Tom loss and Dick gain => Tom was helpless (H). - Q3 (-,-) Tom loss and Dick loss => Tom was stupid (S). - Q4 (+,-) Tom gain and Dick loss => Tom was a bandit (B). Specifically on the S-Stupid in quadrant Q3 (-,-): + There is no upper bound on the amount of stupidity that can exist within any particular individual. + We always underestimate the number of stupid people. + The probability of a person being stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person. + A stupid person is someone who causes damage to another person, or a group of people, without any advantage accruing to himself (or herself), or even with some resultant self-damage. (Golden law of stupidity) + Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid people, and that it's impossible to predict the actions of the stupid. + A stupid person S is the most dangerous person (compared to I, H, B), and crucially stupid S is more dangerous than a bandit B. This is all on individual one unit level. Another relevant observation I can think of is Bismarck-ian most dangerous general — stupid and energetic. Bonhoeffer is the one to make a connection to morality. That looks very important observation to me. And that it happens in groups, like a mind virus-I can see that. Sabine's video is all about collective stupidity. (Extraordinary Popular Delusions as a mirror image to Wisdom of crowds.)

beloch 2y ago

I am familiar with this definition of stupidity as well as the Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." The thing is, I don't think what Trump is doing is adequately explained by stupidity. He's going well out of his way to harm the U.S.'s own interests in a way that, by too-strange a coincidence, helps Russia.

DFHippie 2y ago
Yep. If Putin managed to install a Trojan Horse president bent on attacking the country internally on all fronts, that president would do what Trump is doing. What's flabbergasting is how the Republican Party is enabling this. I thought they had more self-respect. I think the dam will break and many people will start pretending they never supported Trump. And I think this Trump's minders know this, which is why they're destroying everything with such haste. They know they have limited time to gut the country.
- chuckadams 2y ago
  That's been the Republican MO since the 90's: break everything, then blame the Democrats for not cleaning up the mess fast enough. I always expected that behavior. What I never thought I'd live to see was watching the Republican Party of all people outright turn into a Russian fifth column.
  - TheOtherHobbes 2y ago
    It shouldn't be a surprise to see greedy selfish people being corrupted by foreign money. Russia is neither the first nor the only country to be doing this in the US.
    - chuckadams 2y ago
      I think "Russia, if you're listening" goes well beyond just foreign money.