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Turkey took millions of Syrian refugees, Germany in particular and a lot of european countries accepted many more from all over the middle east. Food for thoug

Turkey took millions of Syrian refugees, Germany in particular and a lot of european countries accepted many more from all over the middle east. Food for thought why Egypt and Jordan refuse to ease the sufferring of Gazans by offering them temporary refugee statuses, until Hamas is eradicated and they could live in Gaza happily ever after.

wruza 2y ago
It stems from that nice picture that politicians of the first world paint to their voters. Which is, there are countries, and they all live in friendship, and sometimes boo boo happens and good guys do good things and bad guys don’t do good things. This political infantilization goes all over the world. I learn nothing about that region cause there’s no need to. Absolutely sure that Gaza conflict is not about historically bad neighborship, but about multiple large political forces funding armed groups to retain various destabilizing vectors. And both Jordan and Egypt and a bunch of other clans around have their hands elbow deep in this muppet show, while being partially sponsored by the same good guys who call for the resolve. Also, even in a scenario where this happens, Hamas will feel betrayed and won’t just allow mass exodus for free. Meat shield is all it has.
- Protostome 2y ago
  I agree. the good vs. bad guys narrative that dominates many western countries is toxic.
- pjc50 2y ago
  > about multiple large political forces funding armed groups to retain various destabilizing vectors Especially Iran, but also Hamas can freely fundraise in several of the other gulf states. Don't forget that there are internal anti-peace factions on the Israeli side too, such as those who assassinated Yitzhak Rabin and terminated the last working peace process.
- siltcakes 2y ago
  People should learn about Palestine because all you have to do is read about The Balfour Declaration and Nakba and it becomes crystal clear that the Zionists are "the bad guys", is there doubt about Nazis? It's the same situation.
volleyball 2y ago
The majority of Gaza's residents are 'temporary' refugees from the Nakba[1] in 1948. Trump and Netanyahu have also cleared any lingering doubt in their mind about being able to come back if they ever leave. Trump literally said that they won't come back. And Israel and its allies are working hard to dismantle UNRWA which tracks the refugees status of 6 million displaced palestinians. All this is part of Israel's three-pronged strategy of ethnic-cleansing, genocide, and apartheid. The leaders of Egypt, Jordan and people of Gaza know better than to fall for such an obvious ruse. Anyone arguing otherwise is clearly ignorant or speaking in bad faith. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
- Protostome 2y ago
  The refugee status of Gazan and other palestinian has been strategically kept this way for generations. Many peoples have suffered wars throughout history, were displaced and relocated in other countries. Only the palestinians retain their refugee status even after living in surrounding arab countries like Lebanon, Syria for more than 3 generations. There are more than 2 million arabs that remained in Israel and didn't flee during the 1948 wars, they are all full citizens now, in full contrast. The only reason for keeping palestinians in a refugee status is to keep the conflict going until the eradication of the state of Israel. UNRWA is a known cover for laundrying Hamas activities, there are many accounts of Hamas members firing and conducting military activities wearing UNRWA uniforms and traveling in UNRWA vehicles. That's why many countries stopped supporting them financially
  - alexisread 2y ago
    Most countries restarted funding when Israel did not produce any evidence of UNRWA malfeasance to back up their allegation. The arabs within Israel do not have equal status to Israeli nationals, and less than any Jew who claims lineage but has no connection to Israel. Refugee status is also maintained by Israeli rulings about refugees from Palestine, in order to delegitimize right of return: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship_law https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/6/29/israeli-apartheid-on-campus https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/6/29/israeli-aparthe... Furthermore, the UN have ruled that the right of return is valid, as opposed to the current nationality rules around Jewish heritage that make no sense - no other countries allow similar things: https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/09/1154496 https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/09/1154496 Neighbouring countries accepting refugees could well be considered an endorsement of ethnic cleansing. TBH Gazans should not have to move, the current state of Gaza is entirely down to Israeli destruction which was completely unnecessary - hostage exchange could have happened at any time in the last 15 months, and Netenyahu has blocked that discourse 10+ times before, as it has not been in his interests to seek a resolution to the conflict (witness the complaints by the families of the Israeli hostages).
nix-zarathustra 2y ago
> Food for thought why Egypt and Jordan refuse to ease the sufferring of Gazans by offering them temporary refugee statuses, until Hamas is eradicated and they could live in Gaza happily ever after. Historically, Palestinians have destablized those countries. Palestinians assassinated the King of Jordan[1] and a Prime Minister[2]. Not to mention the instability in Lebanon from Palestinian migrants [3]. Eventually Jordan had to expel the Palestinians from Jordan. [4] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan#Assassination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan#Assassina... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Wasfi_Tal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Wasfi_Tal [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
- bbqfog 2y ago
  Palestinians would be in Palestine if they weren't being ethnically cleansed by the Zionists. Any destabilization rests firmly at the feet of Zionism.
  - sickofparadox 2y ago
    Being displaced from your home country does not give you moral shielding for killing the leaders of another. In fact, I would argue that being displaced from your home means you owe a debt of gratitude to the countries that take you in, which makes bad behavior in them more often reprehensible.
    - bbqfog 2y ago
      You're doing a lot of work to avoid placing the blame where it belongs: Zionism.
      - sickofparadox 2y ago
        If something terrible happens to you in your life, you don't get to just take it out on random people. That goes doubly for those reaching a hand out in assistance.
jltsiren 2y ago
Jordan has taken far more refugees relative to is size than Turkey and Germany. Its population of 11.5 million includes 1.4 million Syrian refugees, 300-400k Palestinian refugees still living in refugee camps (and at least 1.5 million who have gained citizenship), and 1+ million illegal immigrants. There were also ~1 million Iraqi refugees in the 2000s, but most of them eventually returned home. It's kind of surprising that the country is still mostly functional and stable, despite all this. Egypt is kind of overpopulated. Most of the country is uninhabitable, and the Nile from Aswan to the Mediterranean is effectively a contiguous chain of settlements with a total of ~100 million people. The current administration also doesn't want to import Hamas, because they have enough trouble with the Muslim Brotherhood, which used to be the parent group of Hamas.
koutetsu 2y ago
Having talked to a few Palestinias that live outside of Palestine, I know that they all have temporary statuses in the neighoboring countries (for example, those in Lebanon) and that doesn't give them much rights and it has lasted for decades already. Forcing the remaining people in Gaza to leave "temporarily" is first of all ethnic cleansing (forced displacement) and second of all it will be anything but temporary. The same for Syrians in Turkey, they don't have a proper refugee status and have instead a secondary status that gives them fewer rights. Here's some food for thought from me as well: why does anything that goes in and out of Gaza go through israel? Why don't other countries recognize the state of Palestine? Wouldn't that be a good step towards a two-state solution? (Even though I don't believe that would work, at least not without justice for the Palestinians).
- Protostome 2y ago
  Historically, Palestinians rejected all compromise attempts to end the conflict and get their state. that's the only reason why there's no palestinian country. There's a great project led by a youtuber called Corey Gil-Shuster. This guy walks around the west bank and ask random people about the conflict. I think it sums up a lot of the public opinion in the palestinian territories about the conflict. Here is an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPK7NnPRUk&ab_channel=CoreyGil-Shuster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPK7NnPRUk&ab_channel=Corey...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    Another big turning point was when Yitzhak Rabin was murdered. (By an israeli right-winger.) History could have tipped entirely differently had Yitzhak lived. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin
  - beardyw 2y ago
    > Historically, Palestinians rejected all compromise attempts to end the conflict and get their state .... back. Rather a short reading of history.
regularjack 2y ago
Ideas cannot be eradicated
2Gkashmiri 2y ago
uh.. why doesnt israel not do genocide for once?
botanical 2y ago
The idea of Hamas will never be eradicated for as long as Palestinians live under occupation and dehumanisation. Hamas came to be after Palestinian land was occupied, large swathes stolen and its people killed by Apartheid Israel. There already are 5.6 million refugees in Jordan and neighbouring countries, created by Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians; that's almost half the population of Israel. Why should Palestinians forcibly leave their own land?
bbqfog 2y ago
They don't want to support Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Why doesn't Europe take all of the Zionists so we can return Palestine to the Palestinians?
siltcakes 2y ago
There would be no refugees if it wasn't for Zionism. Most of the world recognizes that Zionism is a crime against humanity and the generations that don't are rapidly aging.

wruza 2y ago

It stems from that nice picture that politicians of the first world paint to their voters. Which is, there are countries, and they all live in friendship, and sometimes boo boo happens and good guys do good things and bad guys don’t do good things. This political infantilization goes all over the world. I learn nothing about that region cause there’s no need to. Absolutely sure that Gaza conflict is not about historically bad neighborship, but about multiple large political forces funding armed groups to retain various destabilizing vectors. And both Jordan and Egypt and a bunch of other clans around have their hands elbow deep in this muppet show, while being partially sponsored by the same good guys who call for the resolve. Also, even in a scenario where this happens, Hamas will feel betrayed and won’t just allow mass exodus for free. Meat shield is all it has.

Protostome 2y ago
I agree. the good vs. bad guys narrative that dominates many western countries is toxic.
pjc50 2y ago
> about multiple large political forces funding armed groups to retain various destabilizing vectors Especially Iran, but also Hamas can freely fundraise in several of the other gulf states. Don't forget that there are internal anti-peace factions on the Israeli side too, such as those who assassinated Yitzhak Rabin and terminated the last working peace process.
siltcakes 2y ago
People should learn about Palestine because all you have to do is read about The Balfour Declaration and Nakba and it becomes crystal clear that the Zionists are "the bad guys", is there doubt about Nazis? It's the same situation.

volleyball 2y ago

The majority of Gaza's residents are 'temporary' refugees from the Nakba[1] in 1948. Trump and Netanyahu have also cleared any lingering doubt in their mind about being able to come back if they ever leave. Trump literally said that they won't come back. And Israel and its allies are working hard to dismantle UNRWA which tracks the refugees status of 6 million displaced palestinians. All this is part of Israel's three-pronged strategy of ethnic-cleansing, genocide, and apartheid. The leaders of Egypt, Jordan and people of Gaza know better than to fall for such an obvious ruse. Anyone arguing otherwise is clearly ignorant or speaking in bad faith. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba

Protostome 2y ago
The refugee status of Gazan and other palestinian has been strategically kept this way for generations. Many peoples have suffered wars throughout history, were displaced and relocated in other countries. Only the palestinians retain their refugee status even after living in surrounding arab countries like Lebanon, Syria for more than 3 generations. There are more than 2 million arabs that remained in Israel and didn't flee during the 1948 wars, they are all full citizens now, in full contrast. The only reason for keeping palestinians in a refugee status is to keep the conflict going until the eradication of the state of Israel. UNRWA is a known cover for laundrying Hamas activities, there are many accounts of Hamas members firing and conducting military activities wearing UNRWA uniforms and traveling in UNRWA vehicles. That's why many countries stopped supporting them financially
- alexisread 2y ago
  Most countries restarted funding when Israel did not produce any evidence of UNRWA malfeasance to back up their allegation. The arabs within Israel do not have equal status to Israeli nationals, and less than any Jew who claims lineage but has no connection to Israel. Refugee status is also maintained by Israeli rulings about refugees from Palestine, in order to delegitimize right of return: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship_law https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/6/29/israeli-apartheid-on-campus https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/6/29/israeli-aparthe... Furthermore, the UN have ruled that the right of return is valid, as opposed to the current nationality rules around Jewish heritage that make no sense - no other countries allow similar things: https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/09/1154496 https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/09/1154496 Neighbouring countries accepting refugees could well be considered an endorsement of ethnic cleansing. TBH Gazans should not have to move, the current state of Gaza is entirely down to Israeli destruction which was completely unnecessary - hostage exchange could have happened at any time in the last 15 months, and Netenyahu has blocked that discourse 10+ times before, as it has not been in his interests to seek a resolution to the conflict (witness the complaints by the families of the Israeli hostages).

nix-zarathustra 2y ago

> Food for thought why Egypt and Jordan refuse to ease the sufferring of Gazans by offering them temporary refugee statuses, until Hamas is eradicated and they could live in Gaza happily ever after. Historically, Palestinians have destablized those countries. Palestinians assassinated the King of Jordan[1] and a Prime Minister[2]. Not to mention the instability in Lebanon from Palestinian migrants [3]. Eventually Jordan had to expel the Palestinians from Jordan. [4] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan#Assassination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan#Assassina... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Wasfi_Tal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Wasfi_Tal [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

bbqfog 2y ago
Palestinians would be in Palestine if they weren't being ethnically cleansed by the Zionists. Any destabilization rests firmly at the feet of Zionism.
- sickofparadox 2y ago
  Being displaced from your home country does not give you moral shielding for killing the leaders of another. In fact, I would argue that being displaced from your home means you owe a debt of gratitude to the countries that take you in, which makes bad behavior in them more often reprehensible.
  - bbqfog 2y ago
    You're doing a lot of work to avoid placing the blame where it belongs: Zionism.
    - sickofparadox 2y ago
      If something terrible happens to you in your life, you don't get to just take it out on random people. That goes doubly for those reaching a hand out in assistance.

jltsiren 2y ago

Jordan has taken far more refugees relative to is size than Turkey and Germany. Its population of 11.5 million includes 1.4 million Syrian refugees, 300-400k Palestinian refugees still living in refugee camps (and at least 1.5 million who have gained citizenship), and 1+ million illegal immigrants. There were also ~1 million Iraqi refugees in the 2000s, but most of them eventually returned home. It's kind of surprising that the country is still mostly functional and stable, despite all this. Egypt is kind of overpopulated. Most of the country is uninhabitable, and the Nile from Aswan to the Mediterranean is effectively a contiguous chain of settlements with a total of ~100 million people. The current administration also doesn't want to import Hamas, because they have enough trouble with the Muslim Brotherhood, which used to be the parent group of Hamas.

koutetsu 2y ago

Having talked to a few Palestinias that live outside of Palestine, I know that they all have temporary statuses in the neighoboring countries (for example, those in Lebanon) and that doesn't give them much rights and it has lasted for decades already. Forcing the remaining people in Gaza to leave "temporarily" is first of all ethnic cleansing (forced displacement) and second of all it will be anything but temporary. The same for Syrians in Turkey, they don't have a proper refugee status and have instead a secondary status that gives them fewer rights. Here's some food for thought from me as well: why does anything that goes in and out of Gaza go through israel? Why don't other countries recognize the state of Palestine? Wouldn't that be a good step towards a two-state solution? (Even though I don't believe that would work, at least not without justice for the Palestinians).

Protostome 2y ago
Historically, Palestinians rejected all compromise attempts to end the conflict and get their state. that's the only reason why there's no palestinian country. There's a great project led by a youtuber called Corey Gil-Shuster. This guy walks around the west bank and ask random people about the conflict. I think it sums up a lot of the public opinion in the palestinian territories about the conflict. Here is an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPK7NnPRUk&ab_channel=CoreyGil-Shuster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPK7NnPRUk&ab_channel=Corey...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  Another big turning point was when Yitzhak Rabin was murdered. (By an israeli right-winger.) History could have tipped entirely differently had Yitzhak lived. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin
- beardyw 2y ago
  > Historically, Palestinians rejected all compromise attempts to end the conflict and get their state .... back. Rather a short reading of history.

regularjack 2y ago

Ideas cannot be eradicated

2Gkashmiri 2y ago

uh.. why doesnt israel not do genocide for once?

botanical 2y ago

The idea of Hamas will never be eradicated for as long as Palestinians live under occupation and dehumanisation. Hamas came to be after Palestinian land was occupied, large swathes stolen and its people killed by Apartheid Israel. There already are 5.6 million refugees in Jordan and neighbouring countries, created by Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians; that's almost half the population of Israel. Why should Palestinians forcibly leave their own land?

bbqfog 2y ago

They don't want to support Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Why doesn't Europe take all of the Zionists so we can return Palestine to the Palestinians?

siltcakes 2y ago

There would be no refugees if it wasn't for Zionism. Most of the world recognizes that Zionism is a crime against humanity and the generations that don't are rapidly aging.