4 ms·

If you were in a debate, and had to think through your reasoning and arguments, refining your argument, not the words you want to say but the substance of what

If you were in a debate, and had to think through your reasoning and arguments, refining your argument, not the words you want to say but the substance of what you will say, would there be an inner voice in that situation?

HPsquared 2y ago
Non-chain of thought models just "come up with" words to say. It's probably a bit like that.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  So do chain-of-thoughts. The "come up with words to say" aka. selecting the best-fitting token to continue the sequence, is more-less exactly how my inner monologue feels. It sits at the boundary of the conscious and the unconscious, and from the point of view of my own introspection, the words just appear, complete with an emotional undertone of whether they "feel right" and how much.
idiotsecant 2y ago
In my case, no. There is no conscious 'refinement' of speech options like a Disco Elysium scene or something like that. I mostly just say what I think. There is definitely some impulse control type function to keep me from saying, for example, offensive things, but it's not in the form of myself telling myself 'dont say this thing'. It's usually in the form of an intrusive memory of a facial expression or negative emotion that I associate with that branch of conversation, if that makes sense? Same end, I think, just without a verbal component. I have moderate inattentive type ADHD that manifests as me being hyper focused on specific sometimes minor things and failing to effectively plan larger picture things and often results in poor executive function outcomes. Maybe that's part of it.
- kennysoona 2y ago
  Interesting. Thanks for your answer. For what it's worth I likely have the same type of ADHD but also have a strong inner monologue.
PeterStuer 2y ago
Best I can put it not one but many (not voices but) narratives at once, and shared with stuff that is not linguistic, but more like analogue waves of concept activation. In a fast debate you have no time for inner single dimension explicit reasoning. It flows more directly. Compare it to running on uneven terrain. Somehow decisions are being made where to put the next foot, but most of the time not after an introspective deliberation (although these would occur sometimes in e.g. very tricky rock climbing moves). The steering of where to go occurs at a much higher level, and the steps flow from higher level coarse grained directions. Now in hindsight you can go back and analyze a recording or memory of the debate and see how it all makes sense as if it was rationally reasoned at every step of the way, but during the debate it most certainly is not an "inner voice", homunculus reasoning before consciously uttering the next phrase.
- kennysoona 2y ago
  Thank you for answering. I can't wait to this stuff starts to get examined in more detail and more experiences shared, I think we are only at the tip of the iceberg.

HPsquared 2y ago

Non-chain of thought models just "come up with" words to say. It's probably a bit like that.

TeMPOraL 2y ago
So do chain-of-thoughts. The "come up with words to say" aka. selecting the best-fitting token to continue the sequence, is more-less exactly how my inner monologue feels. It sits at the boundary of the conscious and the unconscious, and from the point of view of my own introspection, the words just appear, complete with an emotional undertone of whether they "feel right" and how much.

idiotsecant 2y ago

In my case, no. There is no conscious 'refinement' of speech options like a Disco Elysium scene or something like that. I mostly just say what I think. There is definitely some impulse control type function to keep me from saying, for example, offensive things, but it's not in the form of myself telling myself 'dont say this thing'. It's usually in the form of an intrusive memory of a facial expression or negative emotion that I associate with that branch of conversation, if that makes sense? Same end, I think, just without a verbal component. I have moderate inattentive type ADHD that manifests as me being hyper focused on specific sometimes minor things and failing to effectively plan larger picture things and often results in poor executive function outcomes. Maybe that's part of it.

kennysoona 2y ago
Interesting. Thanks for your answer. For what it's worth I likely have the same type of ADHD but also have a strong inner monologue.

PeterStuer 2y ago

Best I can put it not one but many (not voices but) narratives at once, and shared with stuff that is not linguistic, but more like analogue waves of concept activation. In a fast debate you have no time for inner single dimension explicit reasoning. It flows more directly. Compare it to running on uneven terrain. Somehow decisions are being made where to put the next foot, but most of the time not after an introspective deliberation (although these would occur sometimes in e.g. very tricky rock climbing moves). The steering of where to go occurs at a much higher level, and the steps flow from higher level coarse grained directions. Now in hindsight you can go back and analyze a recording or memory of the debate and see how it all makes sense as if it was rationally reasoned at every step of the way, but during the debate it most certainly is not an "inner voice", homunculus reasoning before consciously uttering the next phrase.

kennysoona 2y ago
Thank you for answering. I can't wait to this stuff starts to get examined in more detail and more experiences shared, I think we are only at the tip of the iceberg.