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> improving health and well being for all Yeah, to me it looks like that is not fine under the new administration. If it would help only Americans, or those in

> improving health and well being for all Yeah, to me it looks like that is not fine under the new administration. If it would help only Americans, or those in power at least, it would be okay, but something for all the humans? Naaah...

yapyap 2y ago
Or, or they don’t want to go against countries like China anymore
- lukan 2y ago
  You mean they don't want to embarass other dictatorships anymore, by sharing even simple things such as actual air quality data? In my understanding it is not an attack on the country of china, to show their population a glimpse of truth. It is maybe a slight attack on their government. But governments are not the same as the country, even though governments tend to disagree.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > In my understanding it is not an attack on the country of china, to show their population a glimpse of truth. When one country wants to give the population of another "a glimpse of truth", no matter how well meaning, it's usually seen as a threat to the nations sovereignty, for better or worse. As it stands right now, the US are no longer interested in either being in opposition to warmongering countries (Russia) nor stand up against countries it sees as oppressive to it's own population (China), it's clearly heading down a road of self-isolation which makes sense when you consider the ultimate goal of the current regime.
    - notahacker 2y ago
      I think even that gives too much credit. Trump loves being antagonistic towards China (even though with the big picture of how much damage he's doing to global perceptions of technology, the reliability of the US as a trading partner and Western alliances they really don't mind) and actively threatening the national sovereignty of random smaller countries that won't respond. But air quality is the sort of thing than libs care about, so from the point of view of his administration this woke nonsense must be stopped
      - Nevermark 2y ago
        His power comes from managed appearances, bought with the destructive catharsis, that seems to sooth frustrated people with limited (social, economic, scientific, defense) horizons. Even his followers recognize that, but still respect him for pulling it off. “For them.” So yeah, there isn’t going to be a coherent plan behind this, other than adding chapters to the story he spins to keep his peeps engaged, as he dismantles and silences every form of effective opposition he can. The stories of who’s to blame for people’s frustrations, How he is the answer. What “we” “deserve” and he should take, others be damned. Who is for him vs. who is the “enemy”. What helps him vs. what is “waste”.
        TheOtherHobbes 2y ago
        The MAGA shtick is weaponised resentment and toddler rage against anyone who makes MAGAs feel stupid or morally defensive, on top of the usual conservative rage triggers against anyone "weird" or non-conforming, especially sexually. Science, scientists, any morally secure adult professionals, are near the top of the list. "These people make me feel dumb, so I have to punch them in the face to compensate" is the underlying motivation. If it's not checked it's going to turn into a bloodbath against science and rationality in general.
    - lukan 2y ago
      The sovereignity to lie to the own population? I don't think, that is a universal shared concept. I mean we are talking about air quality sensor data here. Not analyzing and judging the countries politics.
      - diggan 2y ago
        > The sovereignity to lie to the own population? Well, yeah. For example, Trump and his administration clearly lies about a lot of stuff, and it's fine and dandy if foreign news agencies report on these lies, no one bats an eye about that. But if you started seeing campaigns from German government for example, to "offer a glimpse of truth" to the US citizens, I think most nations would react negatively towards something like that, and most likely call it propaganda, even though it would actually be "spreading the truth". Basically, what the US has been doing to the world for a long time ("Spreading democracy") is more and more seen as an act against a country's own sovereignty.
        lukan 2y ago
        Offering data on the germans embassy site about the foreign government (they do, or rather in the AA, Auswärtiges Amt) is not really the same as financing and organizing political campaings in other countries. And we are still talking about air quality sensor data ..
        diggan 2y ago
        Yeah, no I understand it sounds trivial and "it's just air quality sensor data" but it's less about what the actual data is about, and more about the intention of publishing something. I agree that the quest for truth should always trump whatever politics are going on in a country, but the common person doesn't really have that "science" mindset so a lot of the population at large would see something like that as infringement on sovereignty, no matter if what's being spread is true or not.
        lukan 2y ago
        "see something like that as infringement on sovereignty" I would ask the people. The stories shared here from Shanghai seem to indicate support of knowing about their air quality. They are the ones to breath it.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
      > a threat to the nations sovereignty The "glimpse of truth" is coming from embassies within their borders. They could disallow the embassies if they honestly see the air quality data as a threat to their sovereignty.
saagarjha 2y ago
Wait until they stop sharing air quality data in the US too.
- martin_a 2y ago
  I'm rather expecting to learn that Tesla cars have air quality sensors and are willing to provide that data for a price.
- AnnaEss 2y ago
  Good point... I don't imagine you have long to wait with the speed of cuts and the 'trojan horse' agenda....
exe34 2y ago
it forced the Chinese to improve their air quality - but now: "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which" (Orwell).
- suraci 2y ago
  > it forced the Chinese to improve their air quality lmao, China improves air quality in China for Chinese people "the world is not all about you" (SURACI)
mikevm 2y ago
Why is it an American interest to help the Chinese with their air pollution if they don't want to do it themselves? You are literally doing the meme from the famous https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0 paper.
- l33tman 2y ago
  There are a lot of Americans travelling to or working in China, it is in their interest if nothing else to know the true values.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- mrkeen 2y ago
  We breathe the same air.
- mihaic 2y ago
  There are two non-moral reasons I can think of: - By forcing the Chinese to fix their air quality, this indirectly makes then economically less competitive, since they need to tighten their processes. - Polution travels all over the globe, everyone eventually is impacted.
- blitzar 2y ago
  > Why is it an American interest to help the Chinese with their air pollution To infect them all with the woke mind virus, so it takes hold and destroys their country. War won without even a shot fired.
  - consteval 2y ago
    Woke is such an abused term that now it refers to the ideology of wanting… clean air. If that’s woke then consider me wide awake.
    - blitzar 2y ago
beloch 2y ago
The instrumentation is there. The personnel who run it are still there. All we're talking about is collecting and sharing the data. This cut will save chump change at best. Why take it down? Honestly, I think Trump is sending a deliberate message here and in a thousand other ways. If you trust the U.S. or rely on the U.S. for anything, no matter how tiny, the new U.S. is going to screw you. It doesn't matter if it was a mutually beneficial collaboration. The U.S. is happy to screw themselves in the process of screwing you. You can't bargain with them. Nothing you say or do will matter. They are going to hurt you because that is the U.S.'s new policy towards it's friends and especially its allies. Trump is not being selfish or putting America's interests first. He's putting someone else's interests above those of the country he ostensibly serves. A lot of what he's doing makes absolutely no sense until you view it this way, and then it all makes sense.
- ljosifov 2y ago
  IDK whether you know it, but in case you don't—you articulated Cippola's definition "stupid is one causing harm to others while not deriving any gain, even taking a small personal loss" above. If you are interested further, I encourage you to check his pamphlet "The Basic Laws Of Human Stupidity". (is "book" too big word for it?) I must say I got a lot out of it and it's followups. It became much easier for me to understand the world around me, what is happening. And even predict what's to happen sometimes. What you observe with Trump admin: 1) it's stupidity; 2) it's not low IQ or lack of rationality; 3) it's lack of morals, not caring about good/bad, or even considering good what the rest consider bad (and vice versa); 4) it's social more than individual, it's a "mind virus". (ha!-Musk) Bonhoeffer‘s "Theory of Stupidity" https://youtube.com/watch?v=ww47bR86wSc https://youtube.com/watch?v=ww47bR86wSc (bad morals not low IQ, mind virus social more than individual) Sabine Hossenfelder "Collective Stupidity -- How Can We Avoid It?" https://youtube.com/watch?v=25kqobiv4ng https://youtube.com/watch?v=25kqobiv4ng (more cases, much more analytical, only about the group aspect not individual)
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    > you articulated Cippola's definition "stupid is one causing harm to others while not deriving any gain, even taking a small personal loss" No need to redefine stupid. We have a word already for that: spite.
gorgoiler 2y ago
While the current administration is unlikely to actually think this way they certainly want to look like they think this way. ”He’s a maverick, but he gets results!” It’s just another part of their ongoing edgy, outsider, contrarian, disruptor narrative.

yapyap 2y ago

Or, or they don’t want to go against countries like China anymore

lukan 2y ago
You mean they don't want to embarass other dictatorships anymore, by sharing even simple things such as actual air quality data? In my understanding it is not an attack on the country of china, to show their population a glimpse of truth. It is maybe a slight attack on their government. But governments are not the same as the country, even though governments tend to disagree.
- diggan 2y ago
  > In my understanding it is not an attack on the country of china, to show their population a glimpse of truth. When one country wants to give the population of another "a glimpse of truth", no matter how well meaning, it's usually seen as a threat to the nations sovereignty, for better or worse. As it stands right now, the US are no longer interested in either being in opposition to warmongering countries (Russia) nor stand up against countries it sees as oppressive to it's own population (China), it's clearly heading down a road of self-isolation which makes sense when you consider the ultimate goal of the current regime.
  - notahacker 2y ago
    I think even that gives too much credit. Trump loves being antagonistic towards China (even though with the big picture of how much damage he's doing to global perceptions of technology, the reliability of the US as a trading partner and Western alliances they really don't mind) and actively threatening the national sovereignty of random smaller countries that won't respond. But air quality is the sort of thing than libs care about, so from the point of view of his administration this woke nonsense must be stopped
    - Nevermark 2y ago
      His power comes from managed appearances, bought with the destructive catharsis, that seems to sooth frustrated people with limited (social, economic, scientific, defense) horizons. Even his followers recognize that, but still respect him for pulling it off. “For them.” So yeah, there isn’t going to be a coherent plan behind this, other than adding chapters to the story he spins to keep his peeps engaged, as he dismantles and silences every form of effective opposition he can. The stories of who’s to blame for people’s frustrations, How he is the answer. What “we” “deserve” and he should take, others be damned. Who is for him vs. who is the “enemy”. What helps him vs. what is “waste”.
      - TheOtherHobbes 2y ago
        The MAGA shtick is weaponised resentment and toddler rage against anyone who makes MAGAs feel stupid or morally defensive, on top of the usual conservative rage triggers against anyone "weird" or non-conforming, especially sexually. Science, scientists, any morally secure adult professionals, are near the top of the list. "These people make me feel dumb, so I have to punch them in the face to compensate" is the underlying motivation. If it's not checked it's going to turn into a bloodbath against science and rationality in general.
  - lukan 2y ago
    The sovereignity to lie to the own population? I don't think, that is a universal shared concept. I mean we are talking about air quality sensor data here. Not analyzing and judging the countries politics.
    - diggan 2y ago
      > The sovereignity to lie to the own population? Well, yeah. For example, Trump and his administration clearly lies about a lot of stuff, and it's fine and dandy if foreign news agencies report on these lies, no one bats an eye about that. But if you started seeing campaigns from German government for example, to "offer a glimpse of truth" to the US citizens, I think most nations would react negatively towards something like that, and most likely call it propaganda, even though it would actually be "spreading the truth". Basically, what the US has been doing to the world for a long time ("Spreading democracy") is more and more seen as an act against a country's own sovereignty.
      - lukan 2y ago
        Offering data on the germans embassy site about the foreign government (they do, or rather in the AA, Auswärtiges Amt) is not really the same as financing and organizing political campaings in other countries. And we are still talking about air quality sensor data ..
        diggan 2y ago
        Yeah, no I understand it sounds trivial and "it's just air quality sensor data" but it's less about what the actual data is about, and more about the intention of publishing something. I agree that the quest for truth should always trump whatever politics are going on in a country, but the common person doesn't really have that "science" mindset so a lot of the population at large would see something like that as infringement on sovereignty, no matter if what's being spread is true or not.
        lukan 2y ago
        "see something like that as infringement on sovereignty" I would ask the people. The stories shared here from Shanghai seem to indicate support of knowing about their air quality. They are the ones to breath it.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
    > a threat to the nations sovereignty The "glimpse of truth" is coming from embassies within their borders. They could disallow the embassies if they honestly see the air quality data as a threat to their sovereignty.

saagarjha 2y ago

Wait until they stop sharing air quality data in the US too.

martin_a 2y ago
I'm rather expecting to learn that Tesla cars have air quality sensors and are willing to provide that data for a price.
AnnaEss 2y ago
Good point... I don't imagine you have long to wait with the speed of cuts and the 'trojan horse' agenda....

exe34 2y ago

it forced the Chinese to improve their air quality - but now: "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which" (Orwell).

suraci 2y ago
> it forced the Chinese to improve their air quality lmao, China improves air quality in China for Chinese people "the world is not all about you" (SURACI)

mikevm 2y ago

Why is it an American interest to help the Chinese with their air pollution if they don't want to do it themselves? You are literally doing the meme from the famous https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12227-0 paper.

l33tman 2y ago
There are a lot of Americans travelling to or working in China, it is in their interest if nothing else to know the true values.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mrkeen 2y ago
We breathe the same air.
mihaic 2y ago
There are two non-moral reasons I can think of: - By forcing the Chinese to fix their air quality, this indirectly makes then economically less competitive, since they need to tighten their processes. - Polution travels all over the globe, everyone eventually is impacted.
blitzar 2y ago
> Why is it an American interest to help the Chinese with their air pollution To infect them all with the woke mind virus, so it takes hold and destroys their country. War won without even a shot fired.
- consteval 2y ago
  Woke is such an abused term that now it refers to the ideology of wanting… clean air. If that’s woke then consider me wide awake.
  - blitzar 2y ago

beloch 2y ago

The instrumentation is there. The personnel who run it are still there. All we're talking about is collecting and sharing the data. This cut will save chump change at best. Why take it down? Honestly, I think Trump is sending a deliberate message here and in a thousand other ways. If you trust the U.S. or rely on the U.S. for anything, no matter how tiny, the new U.S. is going to screw you. It doesn't matter if it was a mutually beneficial collaboration. The U.S. is happy to screw themselves in the process of screwing you. You can't bargain with them. Nothing you say or do will matter. They are going to hurt you because that is the U.S.'s new policy towards it's friends and especially its allies. Trump is not being selfish or putting America's interests first. He's putting someone else's interests above those of the country he ostensibly serves. A lot of what he's doing makes absolutely no sense until you view it this way, and then it all makes sense.

ljosifov 2y ago
IDK whether you know it, but in case you don't—you articulated Cippola's definition "stupid is one causing harm to others while not deriving any gain, even taking a small personal loss" above. If you are interested further, I encourage you to check his pamphlet "The Basic Laws Of Human Stupidity". (is "book" too big word for it?) I must say I got a lot out of it and it's followups. It became much easier for me to understand the world around me, what is happening. And even predict what's to happen sometimes. What you observe with Trump admin: 1) it's stupidity; 2) it's not low IQ or lack of rationality; 3) it's lack of morals, not caring about good/bad, or even considering good what the rest consider bad (and vice versa); 4) it's social more than individual, it's a "mind virus". (ha!-Musk) Bonhoeffer‘s "Theory of Stupidity" https://youtube.com/watch?v=ww47bR86wSc https://youtube.com/watch?v=ww47bR86wSc (bad morals not low IQ, mind virus social more than individual) Sabine Hossenfelder "Collective Stupidity -- How Can We Avoid It?" https://youtube.com/watch?v=25kqobiv4ng https://youtube.com/watch?v=25kqobiv4ng (more cases, much more analytical, only about the group aspect not individual)
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  > you articulated Cippola's definition "stupid is one causing harm to others while not deriving any gain, even taking a small personal loss" No need to redefine stupid. We have a word already for that: spite.

gorgoiler 2y ago

While the current administration is unlikely to actually think this way they certainly want to look like they think this way. ”He’s a maverick, but he gets results!” It’s just another part of their ongoing edgy, outsider, contrarian, disruptor narrative.