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The Differences Between Germany and the United States
- tweiss 14y agotl;dr but I guess his point is that if you're a kickass German scientist, you don't have to use CSS and make your posts more readable. <3 the attitude!
- rb2k_ 14y agoI think that's a problem in academia in general.
- yaix 14y agoThe fact that he's not using CSS is what makes the article more readable.
- gcp 14y agoThe post contains proper HTML markup. Why would he need to add CSS given that it's just a plain article? It should render perfectly - and in fact it's much more readable than many websites here.
- sch1zo 14y agojust glanced though it but most of the stuff regarding Germany is pretty outdated
- sgift 14y ago"By Axel Boldt, 1995-2010." - most of it seems to be from 1995. The section about "communism and socialism" (not really major topics these days) also suggests that this is rather old.
- onli 14y agoIt is/was a major topic in Germany when talking about the political party "Die Linke".
- maebert 14y agoThen again, others are not (e.g. he references the abolishment of compulsory military service in 2011). I think the article is still under constant editing, it's just not possible to catch up with everything at once.
- sdoering 14y agoThis might be true. But a lot of info is clearly biased toward a negative image on Germany, when it comes to the outdated information. So for example regarding privacy and data that is kept by you ISP - nothing on recent developement to abolish the 6-month periode in germany, as well as nothing on the recent developement in the US. Just an example, but a lot of this comparison makes Germany look worse than it actually is. disclaimer: I am from Germany and I really do not like a lot of things, that do go totally wrong here (imho).
- davidbrent 14y agoI feel like people are giving the impression that because some of the material is dated it is worth less. This is simply not true. I found the first two sections very interesting.
- hexagonal 14y agoThe section on American internet access is pretty old. (ISDN?)
- SeanLuke 14y agoApparently all cell phones in the US are analog too.
- protomyth 14y agoThat section has parts that are half-off the rails. The windows and insulation comments struck me as particularly bad. Once again, for the folks commenting on trains: the US train system is very, very good at hauling cargo. It was designed to do that. It sucks at hauling people because they are on the cargo train tracks and don't have tracks of their own.
- brazzy 14y agoThat's probably a misunderstanding based on most US carriers using CDMA rather than GSM (like most of the rest of the world).
- SeanLuke 14y agoIf by "most" you mean "Verizon and Sprint" versus "AT&T and T-Mobile", that's a curious definition of "most".
- rsanchez1 14y agoThis is a very interesting comparison. Even though the author admits it is subjective, he's quite candid about pros and cons for both countries. It's certainly an interesting read, even if I can't agree on many points (being an American).
- activepeanut 14y agoAmericans living abroad are not even allowed to give up citizenship to avoid paying U.S. taxes. That's wrong, along with many other facts in this article.
- tobias3 14y agoI guess you cannot avoid a few misses in that much information. I found most of it to be true. That said, I think it glosses over the fact that US states have huge differences and he has only experienced a subset of them.
- randallsquared 14y agoIt depends on what "allowed" means. The penalty for doing so exceeds that for many minor crimes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_tax#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_tax#United_States
- vacri 14y agoWas expatriation a serious problem for the US? It seems a bit of a severe step to take for someone who is already wealthy. Not to mention it raises the question - if someone renounces their citizenship, what right does the country have to tax them? Doesn't tax come with the right of representation?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- darkestkhan 14y agoAuthor probably never went to Poland - there is much more drunk people in than in Germany. And I never experienced problems with Germans in Germany. And untaxed work in Germany was quite prevalent prior to last year May. And some other things that should be corrected.
- stupandaus 14y agoI think he meant that if you want to avoid paying U.S. taxes, you have to give up citizenship, which is true to my understanding.
- woodpanel 14y agoOn charity: I see two reasons for these different approaches to charity: first, Americans distrust big organizations and third world governments; they fear that money they donate to global causes will trickle away in bureaucracies somewhere. Second, Germans intuitively don't feel much of a need to help local organizations or schools: "that's the government's job, that's what I pay taxes for." I think the main driver for these different approaches is that the German state basically says "in the end we'll help you" while the US says "in the end you're on your own". The German approach in my opinion does more to alleviate outcast-scale poverty. However, the quality of helping loses because: a) those who would help mostly help people from other continents since they think that their countrymen are well off anyway b) those who do help, are put there to help in form of public officers But even with a strong social-net as in Germany there are still poor people. What happens when a)-people don't care and b)-people just follow orders is that our poors usually never get on their own feet and out of their dependency because their is no one telling them how to help themselves. That's what I mean with quality of helping. And yes, this article seems very outdated, but to me the subject would still make a promising headline. One thing I observed is that both countries got less different over the years: If you look at the policies regarding the social-net, Europe has tried to become more american (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartz_concept http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartz_concept) while the US has tried to become more european (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Health_Care_for_America_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Health_Care_for_Amer...).
- yardie 14y agoOne thing I observed is that both countries got less different over the years: If you look at the policies regarding the social-net, Europe has tried to become more american (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartz_concept http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartz_concept) while the US has tried to become more european (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Health_Care_for_Amer... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Health_Care_for_Amer...). Countries in the EU have a mandate to bring down public debt and the easiest place to do that is the welfare system (depending on the economy, most voters think it's too generous in some cases). Since social welfare is so large in Europe there are many places you can "trim". In the US this is not the case at all. The welfare system has gotten aggressively more meager since the 80s. The AHCAA also isn't about more benefits but cutting public expenditure on healthcare in the long run. It's ridiculously expensive to treat someone in the ER for an infection rather than them having regular doctor visits. The same for birth control, pap smears, and breast exams. Treating early saves the government money. Don't confuse this act with the European welfare system, it is absolutely about saving money for the govt, your health is side benefit.
- luisfer 14y agoI hate to sound trivial and to deviate from the conversation, but I would like to draw attention to Finland for a moment and say that the US government should follow suit (for the most part I agree that people in the US have learned to tolerate substandard quality when it comes to many technology services). In Finland, legislation dictates that it is the right of every citizen to have free access to at least a 1Mbps internet connection and by 2015 every household will have a 100Mbps connection. Food for thought: Perhaps if the US followed suit other mobile, banking (and network-reliant fields) would evolve accordingly?
- zxcdw 14y agoBut who'd pay for it? We Finns are more than used to paying taxes for everything we do. Even candies(and other sweets, such as soft drinks) have additional taxing. It's just a matter of different welfare system(if you could say so, it applies well to the cultural differences between European countries - might be a bit of a stretch to compare it to the States... :))
- HeyLaughingBoy 14y agoInteresting, but the cost would be insane. I live about 8 miles or so outside the closest incorporated town. I have 1Mbps DSL that costs me, along with basic landline phone, about $90/month. I think the fastest connection I can get is about 7Mbps. 2015 is only 3 years away, I very much doubt that I will have 100Mbps available by that time. Now consider the very large number of Americans who live much farther from a town or city than I do: the people who do monthly grocery shopping trips rather than drive 80 miles round trip to the store every week. The costs associated with providing them with high speed internet are going to be even higher.
- sfall 14y agoSeems interesting but with a notable number of mistakes on the US, how much can I trust what is said about Germany? and how much has changed since he moved to the US?
- maebert 14y agoMistakes yes, but I think he got most of the core motifs right (on both the US and German side (I grew up in the latter)). With which points (concerning the US) to you disagree / which points to you find questionable (BRD)?
- sfall 14y agoWell writing about high speed trains or lack there of, we have one of the best freight systems in the world, but it makes high speed rail difficult, Europe has gone the other way they have high speed rail focus ref: http://www.economist.com/node/16636101 http://www.economist.com/node/16636101 and this is only one point.
- eru 14y agoI read that document a few years ago. The stuff on Germany is basically right, but of course there are some differences in opinion, and some things have changed by now. If you want to talk about different culture, email me. I'm a German living in the UK, working for a multinational American company. I also spent some time studying in Turkey.
- cschwarm 14y agoThe description of Germans and German behavior seems to be mostly correct, in my opinion. Some points I disagree with: - I never heard someone discuss the environmental impact of microwave ovens. - I have some doubts if the public TV stations are still the biggest. - Unions appear to have lost some power in the last twenty or thirty years here in Germany. At least, the amount of serious strikes seems to have decreased. - The requirement to be a "Meister" to be able to open a shop have been dropped in recent years, for almost all trades as far as I know. I disagree mostly with the German description of aggression and violence. Sometimes, I wish he'd expressed a point a little bit more nuanced.
- Indyan 14y ago"Many extension cords still come without a third hole for grounding in the US. When you plug things into electrical outlets, you'll often observe cute little sparks. That never happens in Germany." So in Germany there is no concept of grounding? Why? Also, is there any scientific explanation behind no sparking in Gemany?
- vacri 14y agoI think you have it backwards - he's saying that all German extension cords have a third pin for ground.
- Indyan 14y agoOh yeah..I got it wrong. So, US doesn't have the concept of grounding? Surprising, but I suppose that does explain the sparks.
- vonmoltke 14y agoNo, it doesn't. The grounding wire is an equipment ground. It connects to metal cases and other points inside the device that require an earth ground, and not all devices actually require an earth ground. Electrically, though, it does nothing for the cord itself or the outlet. The sparks are caused by the physical design of the plug and outlet, specifically that US outlets are designed in such a way that you can actually see them. Any mechanical connection between two conductors (outlets, switches, etc.) has the potential to spark if the voltage between them is high enough. Other conductors have nothing to do with this potential.
- maxerickson 14y agoThere are, I guess legacy, 2 wire systems. On those systems, one wire is hot and the other is neutral. The neutral is connected to ground at the electrical box. For 3 wire systems, there is an additional ground wire. It comes into play when the hot wire shorts to a part of the device that is exposed to the environment (hopefully tripping the breaker). Modern 2 pole plugs are constructed with different size pins, so a device can be wired to be safer when connected to a properly wired 2 pole outlet.
- dccnl 14y agoGerman history and resulting 'cough' freedom gets in the way here. Why not compare USA to Sweden, Holland of France :D
- sdoering 14y agoMaybe, because he is German, lived here a long time and moved to the US? Maybe, because he has no direct knowledge of Sweden? Your voice and words, dear gentleman, make you a troll.
- subpixel 14y agoI've lived in Germany for 5+ years and believe humor to be one of the widest cultural gaps between Germany and the US. To wit: http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/what-makes-germans-laugh-not-30-rock/ http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/what-makes-germ...
- gegenschall 14y agoDisclaimer: I am German and I actually saw and liked 30 Rock (in English) ;-) As for 30 Rock: The problem with English shows on German television is that they are all dubbed. I won't say that they are doing a bad job (c.f. eastern european countries) but sometimes they are missing out puns and jokes which "can't be translated" without losing meaning. In the end this can make a funny TV show unwatchable. On the other hand you will never (as in never ever) see an undubbed show on German television. People are used to watch it in German, so most of them might just never watch it again in either language. edit: s/Disclaimer/FYI/
- eru 14y agoNitpick: Arte has undubbed shows. And there's the ever popular Dinner for One.
- gegenschall 14y agoDidn't think of that. Arte is actually one of the few good TV channels in Germany (and France).
- NameNickHN 14y ago> I won't say that they are doing a bad job I do. I watch American shows and films exclusively in their original version because of the really bad job they do with the translation. From time to time I catch the dubbed version by accident. Mostly I just cringe and make it go away.
- rustynails 14y agoI'm from OZ, and to be honest, I need the canned laughter when watching US comedy - because the humor is not obvious (eg. Will and Grace- canned laughter when a dog walks across the screen ... Ahh, Americans find that funny... Ok) Now British humor? I get that without canned laughter.
- tubbo 14y ago"What are they afraid of?" Have you not been paying attention in the last 50 years? We've made a hell of a lot of enemies, and before that it was communism, and before that it was world wars. Our military is strong because if it wasn't we would be getting attacked constantly. I'm pretty sure that a major reason why there haven't been any substantial terrorist attacks on the US since 9/11 is because our military will FUCK UP ENTIRE COUNTRIES if that happens again. Shit, we got launched into a 6-year war with 2 countries after an independent terrorist group blew up our building. If the KKK went to another country and bombed a building, would that country then attack and occupy us? Absolutely not! Because they can't.
- ucee054 14y ago> Our military is strong because if it wasn't we would be > getting attacked constantly Which is why Sweden, Cabo Verde, Malaysia and Trinidad are getting attacked constantly. Or maybe the USA gets attacked because it routinely decides to "FUCK UP ENTIRE COUNTRIES" ? Or even better, why not leave your foreign policy ideology out of a thread about a cultural/sociological article? I was enjoying it until you ruined it
- tubbo 14y ago> Or maybe the USA gets attacked because it routinely decides to "FUCK UP ENTIRE COUNTRIES" ? "We've made a hell of a lot of enemies," kind-of inferred that. You'd probably know that if you read what I wrote instead of thinking how you were going to retort to it. > I was enjoying it until you ruined it That makes me happy. :) kindly get out.
- yaix 14y agoBluetooth headset? Microwaved food debate? Parts of the text seem to be ten or more years old, while other parts have been updated. Still, a good read.
- gyardley 14y agoGood article, but it always bothers me a bit when people talk about Americans generically. Yes, you can make some generalizations, but the country is huge and there are many distinct cultural zones. Attitudes and behavior vary widely between them.
- Argorak 14y agoGermany also has a diverse culture, especially because it wasn't a unified state until the end of the 19th century. So the generalization is on both sides.
- anamax 14y ago> Germany also has a diverse culture Compared to what? Compared to Madison Wisconsin, maybe, compared to all of Wisconsin, probably not, compared to Texas or CA, not a chance. Heck, South San Jose is more diverse.
- Argorak 14y agoI din't compare anything. Also, it looks a lot like you never travelled through Germany from north to south. Every piece of Germany has different traditions, dialects and food. I am from a place where I cannot understand people from the next village. Also, all those parts are pretty vocal: I think Germany is the only country that has developed regional Wikipedias (at least Bavaria, Palatinate and Northern Germany).
- derleth 14y ago> I think Germany is the only country that has developed regional Wikipedias (at least Bavaria, Palatinate and Northern Germany). Different varieties of English could do that, but English tends to center on an American/Commonwealth divide with only the two prestige dialects everyone else sees as the only 'valid' ones.
- Argorak 14y ago
- wahsd 14y agoWhat a bunch of lazy, biased nonsense. There is absolutely nothing of value in that accumulation of words. I am neither for or against either the USA or Germany, but I am for unbiased and accurate assessment.
- Tooluka 14y agoBefore and during reading I was pretty sure that it is a little biased for one of the countries. The end effect was completely reverse - I can't really choose one country as better right now. So I'd call this article a success. Jelly donuts rant was a nice touch in the end :) .
- zalew 14y agoSome stuff from what he describes and I know about is either wrong, too subjective, lacks context or very outdated; so I'd rather take it with a grain of salt.
- tseabrooks 14y agoThe article is interesting even if bits and pieces are out of date. It's nice to see other's viewpoints. My one complaint about this article, and a lot of articles of the same ilk, is the part where Americans get criticized for not "traveling abroad" and not "seeing foreign countries". I suspect most american's will travel more MILES than the average european without ever seeing another country. It's far far more expensive for an American to visit other western countries than it is for the average European. We'd absolutely LOVE to be able to fly to France for the price of train ticket from London to Paris. Sadly, the price of oversees airfare is pretty damned high. I know visiting different states isn't the same as visiting countries but I think people living outside of the U.S. don't understand just how different various U.S. regions are from each other. Really, you might say it's a bit silly to go visiting foreign countries when you haven't even experienced all of the diversity in your own country yet.
- maratd 14y ago> It's far far more expensive for an American to visit other western countries than it is for the average European. Well, yes. Then there's the enjoyment factor. Personally, I've been to Europe multiple times. Hell, I was born there. And frankly, I enjoy going to the Caribbean, Bermuda, and Mexico much more. > I know visiting different states isn't the same as visiting countries but I think people living outside of the U.S. don't understand just how different various U.S. regions are from each other. Also spot on. If you live in NYC, going to NOLA is plenty exotic. Vice versa as well. Air fare is almost nothing compared to going to other continents. The only people who might truly be able to relate would be from China and India. Both countries are large and diverse enough that traveling inside of their borders becomes a rewarding experience.
- soperj 14y agoreally... just india and china? what about australia? canada? Russia?
- maratd 14y agoI've never been to Australia, so I can't comment. In Canada, you have three choices. British Columbia/Vancouver, Ontario/Ottawa, and Quebec/Montreal. The rest is frozen tundra. Russia? Leningrad (or whatever they're calling it now), Moscow, and the Black Sea region (might as well go to Ukraine/Odessa for that). The rest is frozen tundra. So yeah, China and India. It's not about size. It's about the diversity of cultures and climates.
- sciurus 14y agoIf you like this, you may be interested in these comparisons of the US and Germany. http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2011/united-states http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2011/united... http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2011/germany http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2011/german... http://www.heritage.org/index/country/unitedstates http://www.heritage.org/index/country/unitedstates http://www.heritage.org/index/country/germany http://www.heritage.org/index/country/germany
- gbog 14y agoRead half of it. 70% applies to France vs US as well.
- mshron 14y agoI'd like to suggest another reason for large military expenditures that have nothing to do with corruption. The US has the only two-ocean navy, and a very extensive one at that. A lot of the burden of protecting shipping lanes for members of the "global system" is covered by the States. That's really, really expensive. Of course, that means that countries that don't want to play by US rules (North Korea, Iran, Cuba) get shafted, but it's still a better explanation of the crazy military costs than either fear or corruption.
- chimi 14y agoFor the record, there are other multi-ocean navies: russia, south africa, australia, canada, and argentina among them. I think that's a pretty small factor compared to the influence of the military industrial complex. The size of the US navy dwarfs every other country considerably, even when factoring in oceanic boundaries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_warships_in_service_worldwide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_warships_in_service_w... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_bordering_on_two_or_more_oceans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_bordering_on_...
- afterburner 14y agoThe US has about half the world's aircraft carriers. Each aircraft carrier basically needs a battle group to protect it. The approach is indicative of the US's strategy: be able to have a few aircraft carriers anywhere important in the world, ready to quickly react to a crisis without sacrificing protection elsewhere. Since no other nation with aircraft carriers has more than 2 (and most have only one), that basically guarantees significant air and naval power anywhere.
- greedo 14y agoThe parent post doesn't mean the same thing you mean. The USN patrols every major seaway in the world; I sure don't see South Africa doing the same, nor Canada, Australia, The Russian Federation, and definitely not Argentina.
- 14y ago
- temphn 14y agohttp://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/us-d.html#communism http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/us-d.html#communism It is not very well known however that Germany saw a much more vigilant communism hunt at about the same time. While in the US only about a dozen people ever went to prison for being Communists, that same number runs in the thousands in Germany. The communist party was forbidden by the German high court, and party members who continued their activities were arrested and sent to prison. Need we forget that the Stasi of the hostile East German state were right next door? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi The Stasi was headquartered in East Berlin, with an extensive complex in Berlin-Lichtenberg and several smaller facilities throughout the city. It was widely regarded as one of the most effective and repressive intelligence and secret police agencies in the world. The Stasi motto was "Schild und Schwert der Partei" (Shield and Sword of the Party), that is the ruling Socialist Unity Party of Germany (SED). Now considered a criminal organisation, several Stasi officials were prosecuted for their crimes after 1990. Lest we forget, the GDR was also a vassal of the nuclear-armed Soviet Union, and the KGB was not an imaginary entity. Communism was no joke. See "The Lives of Others" if you want to see what East Germany was like when this guy grew up: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/ Incredibly, not a single mention of East Germany or the GDR in this entire document.
- zalew 14y agoyeah, reading him feels like he's been totally disconnected from reality or managed to forget the circumstances of that era in Europe, where fighting communism was real not just a propaganda witchhunt. hence my comment before, many of his observations are totally out of context.
- esrauch 14y agoHm can you elaborate on that? In the US they teach that McCarthyism was an absurd witchhunt, but it seems to me that the Soviet Union and the US were pretty much just as much enemies as West Germany. Why is it so much different?
- pureyang 14y agoOne of the areas where Germany has and always will be different from the US is in their motoring culture. Drivers license Cost 15 $ 1400 EU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4itwh8C4kn8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4itwh8C4kn8 National Max Highway speed US 65 GERMANY none* *I know, its not everywhere or all the time, but go once, and its pure bliss, cruising around ~100mph just feels right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_autobahns#Speed_limits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_autobahns#Speed_limits
- brazzy 14y agoDon't forget minimum age to get a license: 16 vs. 18, and possibly related, minimum drinking age 21 vs. 16...
- dahotre 14y agoTry explaining the conservatives that NYT is the best news paper in the US.