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> Also, “anarchy” is the most extreme is “leftist” politics What? No it’s not. Anarchy is the extreme libertarian position. The smallest possible form of gove

by dartos 2y ago

> Also, “anarchy” is the most extreme is “leftist” politics What? No it’s not. Anarchy is the extreme libertarian position. The smallest possible form of governance is anarchy. The extreme left is total communism, where everything is controlled in order to ensure a minimum standard of living.

mplanchard 2y ago
You’re wrong, which is why you’re being downvoted. A decent intro to the topic on the anarchist side is Chomsky’s On Anarchism
- dartos 2y ago
  I’ve been right and have been downvoted too ;) But I’m not an expert on this topic. How is anarchy not the extreme libertarian position?
  - rat87 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism Vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism > While the earliest extant attestation of "anarchocapitalism" [sic] is in Karl Hess's essay "The Death of Politics" published by Playboy in March 1969,[8][9] American economist Murray Rothbard was credited with coining the terms anarcho-capitalist[10][11] and anarcho-capitalism in 1971 Left wing anarchism used the name much earlier and arguably was more influential historically even in the US. For example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_William_McKinley https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_William_McK... was done by a left wing anarchist. But arguably in the US it might be used more often to refer to anarcho capitalists these days I believe there's a similar sort of issue with the term libertarianism that was at least sometimes used to refer to something similar to anarcho Communism
    - dartos 2y ago
      My understanding of the main libertarianism is that it calls for extremely small government with minimal impact on the lives of individuals. This seems pretty in line with anarchy. I know that in the US “libertarians” tend to be fairly right leaning, but I don’t think that “libertarian” means “republican” Maybe the confusion is just over semantics.
s1artibartfast 2y ago
The ultimate communist goal is achieve a decentralized society where nobody is controlled or directed. They see abolishing class hierarchies as the path to achieving this. Anarcho-capitalist libertarians seek a very similar society. They see abolishing governmental hierarchies as the path to achieve this.
- dartos 2y ago
  > The ultimate communist goal is achieve a decentralized society where nobody is controlled or directed Is this true? My understanding of communism is that everyone contributes to the community with their labor (thus the name communism) The ultimate ideal is to have a society which does that on their own (imo something utopian and impossible in reality), but I always thought the goal was to guarantee a minimum standard of living via shared labor and wealth.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    I agree it is utopian, but it is aslo true that it is what communists believe. The end stage communist state is contingent on post-scarcity. That is to say, more can be voluntarily produced than people willingly consume. This is not mutually exclusive with providing a minimum standard of living. This becomes evident when you dig into the details of the phrase "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". >Marx delineated the specific conditions under which such a creed would be applicable — a society where technology and social organization had substantially eliminated the need for physical labor in the production of things, where labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want.[1] Marx explained his belief that, in such a society, each person would be motivated to work for the good of society despite the absence of a social mechanism compelling them to work, because work would have become a pleasurable and creative activity. Marx intended the initial part of his slogan, "from each according to his ability" to suggest not merely that each person should work as hard as they can, but that each person should best develop their particular talents.[15][16] >Claiming themselves to be at a "lower stage of communism" (i.e. "socialism", in line with Vladimir Lenin’s terminology),[17] the Soviet Union adapted the formula as: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his work (labour investment)".[1] Exchanging individual direction and rights for central planning and minimum standard of living is a characteristic of socialism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability,_to_each_according_to_his_needs#:~:text=%22From%20each%20according%20to%20his,of%20goods%2C%20capital%20and%20services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_abi...

by dartos 2y ago

mplanchard 2y ago

You’re wrong, which is why you’re being downvoted. A decent intro to the topic on the anarchist side is Chomsky’s On Anarchism

dartos 2y ago
I’ve been right and have been downvoted too ;) But I’m not an expert on this topic. How is anarchy not the extreme libertarian position?
- rat87 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism Vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism > While the earliest extant attestation of "anarchocapitalism" [sic] is in Karl Hess's essay "The Death of Politics" published by Playboy in March 1969,[8][9] American economist Murray Rothbard was credited with coining the terms anarcho-capitalist[10][11] and anarcho-capitalism in 1971 Left wing anarchism used the name much earlier and arguably was more influential historically even in the US. For example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_William_McKinley https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_William_McK... was done by a left wing anarchist. But arguably in the US it might be used more often to refer to anarcho capitalists these days I believe there's a similar sort of issue with the term libertarianism that was at least sometimes used to refer to something similar to anarcho Communism
  - dartos 2y ago
    My understanding of the main libertarianism is that it calls for extremely small government with minimal impact on the lives of individuals. This seems pretty in line with anarchy. I know that in the US “libertarians” tend to be fairly right leaning, but I don’t think that “libertarian” means “republican” Maybe the confusion is just over semantics.

s1artibartfast 2y ago

The ultimate communist goal is achieve a decentralized society where nobody is controlled or directed. They see abolishing class hierarchies as the path to achieving this. Anarcho-capitalist libertarians seek a very similar society. They see abolishing governmental hierarchies as the path to achieve this.

dartos 2y ago
> The ultimate communist goal is achieve a decentralized society where nobody is controlled or directed Is this true? My understanding of communism is that everyone contributes to the community with their labor (thus the name communism) The ultimate ideal is to have a society which does that on their own (imo something utopian and impossible in reality), but I always thought the goal was to guarantee a minimum standard of living via shared labor and wealth.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  I agree it is utopian, but it is aslo true that it is what communists believe. The end stage communist state is contingent on post-scarcity. That is to say, more can be voluntarily produced than people willingly consume. This is not mutually exclusive with providing a minimum standard of living. This becomes evident when you dig into the details of the phrase "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". >Marx delineated the specific conditions under which such a creed would be applicable — a society where technology and social organization had substantially eliminated the need for physical labor in the production of things, where labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want.[1] Marx explained his belief that, in such a society, each person would be motivated to work for the good of society despite the absence of a social mechanism compelling them to work, because work would have become a pleasurable and creative activity. Marx intended the initial part of his slogan, "from each according to his ability" to suggest not merely that each person should work as hard as they can, but that each person should best develop their particular talents.[15][16] >Claiming themselves to be at a "lower stage of communism" (i.e. "socialism", in line with Vladimir Lenin’s terminology),[17] the Soviet Union adapted the formula as: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his work (labour investment)".[1] Exchanging individual direction and rights for central planning and minimum standard of living is a characteristic of socialism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability,_to_each_according_to_his_needs#:~:text=%22From%20each%20according%20to%20his,of%20goods%2C%20capital%20and%20services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_abi...