7 ms·

I don’t think you understand hardware timelines if you think this product had literally anything to do with anything DeepSeek.

bustling-noose 2y ago
My thoughts too. This product was in the pipeline maybe 2-3 years ago. Maybe with LLMs getting popular a year ago they tried to fit more memory but it’s almost impossible to do that that close to a launch. Especially when memory is fused not just a module you can swap.
- tgma 2y ago
  Your conclusion is correct but to be clear the memory is not "fused." It's soldered close to the main processor. Not even a Package-on-Package (two story) configuration. See photo without heatspreader here: https://wccftech.com/apple-m2-ultra-soc-delidded-package-size-bigger-than-intel-sapphire-rapids-xeon-cpu/ https://wccftech.com/apple-m2-ultra-soc-delidded-package-siz...
  - bustling-noose 2y ago
    I think by fuse I mean't its stuck on to the SOC module, not part of the SOC as I may have worded. While you could maybe still add NANDs later in the manufacturing process, it's probably not easy, especially if you need more NANDs and a larger module which might cause more design problems. The NAND is closer cause the controller is in the SOC. So the memory controller probably would also change with higher memory sizes which would mean this cannot be a last minute change.
  - fennecfoxy 2y ago
    Sheesh, the...comments on that link.
reitzensteinm 2y ago
Chip? Yes. Product? Not necessarily... It's not completely out of the question that the 512gb version of M3 Ultra was built for their internal Apple silicon servers powering Private Compute Cloud, but not intended for consumer release, until a compelling use case suddenly arrived. I don't _think_ this is what happened, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it impossible.
- forrestthewoods 2y ago
  DeepSeek R1 came out Jan 20. Literally impossible.
  - reitzensteinm 2y ago
    The scenario is that the 512gb M3 Ultra was validated for the Mac Studio, and in volume production for their servers, but a business decision was made to not offer more than a 256gb SKU for Mac Studio. I don't think this happened, but it's absolutely not "literally impossible". Engineering takes time, artificial segmentation can be changed much more quickly.
    - forrestthewoods 2y ago
      From “internal only” to “delivered to customers” in 6 weeks is literally impossible.
      - ryao 2y ago
        This change is mostly just using higher density ICs on the assembly line and printing different box art with a SKU change. It does not take much time, especially if they had planned it as a possible product just in case management changed its mind.
- jahewson 2y ago
  That's absurd. Fabing custom silicon is not something anybody does for a few thousand internal servers. The unit economics simply don't work. Plus Apple is using OpenAI to provide its larger models anyway, so the need never even existed.
  - brookst 2y ago
    Apple is positively building custom servers, and quantities are closer to the 100k range than 1000 [0] But I agree they are not using m3 ultra for that. It wouldn’t make any sense. 0. https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2024/06/11/apple_built_ai_cloud_servers_os/ https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2024/06/11/apple_built_ai_cl...

bustling-noose 2y ago

My thoughts too. This product was in the pipeline maybe 2-3 years ago. Maybe with LLMs getting popular a year ago they tried to fit more memory but it’s almost impossible to do that that close to a launch. Especially when memory is fused not just a module you can swap.

tgma 2y ago
Your conclusion is correct but to be clear the memory is not "fused." It's soldered close to the main processor. Not even a Package-on-Package (two story) configuration. See photo without heatspreader here: https://wccftech.com/apple-m2-ultra-soc-delidded-package-size-bigger-than-intel-sapphire-rapids-xeon-cpu/ https://wccftech.com/apple-m2-ultra-soc-delidded-package-siz...
- bustling-noose 2y ago
  I think by fuse I mean't its stuck on to the SOC module, not part of the SOC as I may have worded. While you could maybe still add NANDs later in the manufacturing process, it's probably not easy, especially if you need more NANDs and a larger module which might cause more design problems. The NAND is closer cause the controller is in the SOC. So the memory controller probably would also change with higher memory sizes which would mean this cannot be a last minute change.
- fennecfoxy 2y ago
  Sheesh, the...comments on that link.

reitzensteinm 2y ago

Chip? Yes. Product? Not necessarily... It's not completely out of the question that the 512gb version of M3 Ultra was built for their internal Apple silicon servers powering Private Compute Cloud, but not intended for consumer release, until a compelling use case suddenly arrived. I don't _think_ this is what happened, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it impossible.

forrestthewoods 2y ago
DeepSeek R1 came out Jan 20. Literally impossible.
- reitzensteinm 2y ago
  The scenario is that the 512gb M3 Ultra was validated for the Mac Studio, and in volume production for their servers, but a business decision was made to not offer more than a 256gb SKU for Mac Studio. I don't think this happened, but it's absolutely not "literally impossible". Engineering takes time, artificial segmentation can be changed much more quickly.
  - forrestthewoods 2y ago
    From “internal only” to “delivered to customers” in 6 weeks is literally impossible.
    - ryao 2y ago
      This change is mostly just using higher density ICs on the assembly line and printing different box art with a SKU change. It does not take much time, especially if they had planned it as a possible product just in case management changed its mind.
jahewson 2y ago
That's absurd. Fabing custom silicon is not something anybody does for a few thousand internal servers. The unit economics simply don't work. Plus Apple is using OpenAI to provide its larger models anyway, so the need never even existed.
- brookst 2y ago
  Apple is positively building custom servers, and quantities are closer to the 100k range than 1000 [0] But I agree they are not using m3 ultra for that. It wouldn’t make any sense. 0. https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2024/06/11/apple_built_ai_cloud_servers_os/ https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2024/06/11/apple_built_ai_cl...