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If you are stopped at the border then you don't have such a right. British border force can just demand you give them keys to all your devices and hold them for

If you are stopped at the border then you don't have such a right. British border force can just demand you give them keys to all your devices and hold them for 7 days, no court order needed. Watch this if you're curious how that looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=991kRp8KUmo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=991kRp8KUmo

lucb1e 2y ago
The part that stood out to me, copying from the automatic transcript: > they're sitting there with these like blank A4 Bits of Paper writing down everything I'm telling them like you know bits of interest and it's exactly the same thing the Russians did when they interrogated me [...] to be honest interactions with the Russians have been pretty much the same as inter with the British government I didn't do my research before going to the UK for the first time two months ago and just went with my gut feeling, that is, deleting files from my phone that I don't want to end up in a government system through Cellebrite's "accelerated justice" or whatnot. Never done this for any other country before (I cross borders on a weekly basis). Seeing this video and the Ugandan article from the sibling comment, that was definitely the right move
- Marsymars 2y ago
  I don’t know of any country where border guards don’t have the authority to seize your device if you’re trying to cross. I just use devices with ephemeral storage for crossing borders to save myself from having to do any research on any particular country’s device privacy practices.
  - lucb1e 2y ago
    Then I'm not sure what we're criticizing China for, if no country has such fundamental rights for the people under its control. The warrant system exists for a reason. I'm not more likely to be carrying something illegal when going between countries than within the jurisdiction where my registered place of residence is; less if anything because there might be spot checking indeed
- ohgr 2y ago
  I get bagged and tagged at least once a week when I go shopping in the UK in the last 50 years. You don’t want to come here at all. I’d rather hang around in Russia these days. Facetious comment aside the only time I’ve had problems with border security anywhere is getting a large carpet back home from Azerbaijan. This was very interesting and required them to examine every square centimetre of it. China, US, UK, Europe all really boring. Russia was incompetent. They didn’t even check anything at all (2012)
77pt77 2y ago
Imagine you're a citizen and say no. Are they arresting you? Because they have to let you in.
- gambiting 2y ago
  You don't have the right to say no or even stay silent. If you refuse to give up your passwords they will charge you with the whatever the legislation around it is, it's 2 years behind bars for refusing.
  - UberFly 2y ago
    God this is scary. What if this "authority" figure is abusing their position? Do you have any recourse?
    - johnisgood 2y ago
      Probably not, just a waste of money and time, but hopefully someone can provide a reasonable recourse. What if you say you forgot? I actually had times (after not having used my phone for a month or two) that I (& my muscles) forgot my PIN (not for the SIM card) and I had to do a factory reset.
      - gambiting 2y ago
        Well it's not automatic 2 year prison sentence. The state charges you with a crime, it goes to trial, and then you have to defend yourself - if your argument is that you forgot, then it would be an interesting case - ultimately the prosecutor would need to prove that it's unlikely you forgot, say if they had proof (say CCTV recording at the airport) showing you using your phone 5 minutes before it was confiscated - it would be pretty hard to argue that in the space of those 5 minutes you forgot the password. But if you had a device in your suitcase and could successfully argue that you haven't used it in ages and the password was long and complex then yeah, I guess you'd be found not guilty - up to the judge/magister/jury depending on where exactly in the justice system you end up. But yeah, while stopped at the border saying "I forgot" is not a good card to play.
inopinatus 2y ago
Some firms routinely forbid carrying company data (including encrypted data) across five-eyes and PRC borders, this is why.

lucb1e 2y ago

The part that stood out to me, copying from the automatic transcript: > they're sitting there with these like blank A4 Bits of Paper writing down everything I'm telling them like you know bits of interest and it's exactly the same thing the Russians did when they interrogated me [...] to be honest interactions with the Russians have been pretty much the same as inter with the British government I didn't do my research before going to the UK for the first time two months ago and just went with my gut feeling, that is, deleting files from my phone that I don't want to end up in a government system through Cellebrite's "accelerated justice" or whatnot. Never done this for any other country before (I cross borders on a weekly basis). Seeing this video and the Ugandan article from the sibling comment, that was definitely the right move

Marsymars 2y ago
I don’t know of any country where border guards don’t have the authority to seize your device if you’re trying to cross. I just use devices with ephemeral storage for crossing borders to save myself from having to do any research on any particular country’s device privacy practices.
- lucb1e 2y ago
  Then I'm not sure what we're criticizing China for, if no country has such fundamental rights for the people under its control. The warrant system exists for a reason. I'm not more likely to be carrying something illegal when going between countries than within the jurisdiction where my registered place of residence is; less if anything because there might be spot checking indeed
ohgr 2y ago
I get bagged and tagged at least once a week when I go shopping in the UK in the last 50 years. You don’t want to come here at all. I’d rather hang around in Russia these days. Facetious comment aside the only time I’ve had problems with border security anywhere is getting a large carpet back home from Azerbaijan. This was very interesting and required them to examine every square centimetre of it. China, US, UK, Europe all really boring. Russia was incompetent. They didn’t even check anything at all (2012)

77pt77 2y ago

Imagine you're a citizen and say no. Are they arresting you? Because they have to let you in.

gambiting 2y ago
You don't have the right to say no or even stay silent. If you refuse to give up your passwords they will charge you with the whatever the legislation around it is, it's 2 years behind bars for refusing.
- UberFly 2y ago
  God this is scary. What if this "authority" figure is abusing their position? Do you have any recourse?
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    Probably not, just a waste of money and time, but hopefully someone can provide a reasonable recourse. What if you say you forgot? I actually had times (after not having used my phone for a month or two) that I (& my muscles) forgot my PIN (not for the SIM card) and I had to do a factory reset.
    - gambiting 2y ago
      Well it's not automatic 2 year prison sentence. The state charges you with a crime, it goes to trial, and then you have to defend yourself - if your argument is that you forgot, then it would be an interesting case - ultimately the prosecutor would need to prove that it's unlikely you forgot, say if they had proof (say CCTV recording at the airport) showing you using your phone 5 minutes before it was confiscated - it would be pretty hard to argue that in the space of those 5 minutes you forgot the password. But if you had a device in your suitcase and could successfully argue that you haven't used it in ages and the password was long and complex then yeah, I guess you'd be found not guilty - up to the judge/magister/jury depending on where exactly in the justice system you end up. But yeah, while stopped at the border saying "I forgot" is not a good card to play.

inopinatus 2y ago

Some firms routinely forbid carrying company data (including encrypted data) across five-eyes and PRC borders, this is why.