2 ms·

> Just like nowadays you can't buy a "dumb TV" You can, if you buy used. I know it's weird to buy a used TV, but they cost pennies on the dollar and you can

> Just like nowadays you can't buy a "dumb TV" You can, if you buy used. I know it's weird to buy a used TV, but they cost pennies on the dollar and you can get some really nice models without today's ubiquitous annoyances. Same goes for cars. If enough people refrain from buying new cars, and put in the effort to keep their older cars on the road, maybe manufacturers will take the hint.

Retric 2y ago
Or just modify them. People used to replace their stereo, I suspect there would be a real market for add free infotainment systems.
- smackeyacky 2y ago
  This is already difficult on 20 year old vehicles, in the future it might be impossible. The combination of weird speaker ohm specs, CAN Bus controlled factory amplifiers, integrated vehicle information systems (where the display is across several screens) in modern cars and the abandonment of the DIN stereo size make doing aftermarket installs harder and harder. The Chinese are producing some astounding things - you can buy a drop-in centre console replacement for an older Chrysler 300C that looks factory but has a big touch screen, Carplay/Android Auto and a dongle that interfaces with the CAN bus based amplifier and steering wheel buttons. I suspect for really popular cars this will be an option, but it can't be done for every car released.
  - bombcar 2y ago
    This is already a huge issue - I actually had to pay attention to CarPlay integration because most cars the infotainment system is tied to the car itself (and not just the steering wheel controls), and you need it. Many of the car's settings can't be changed anywhere but on the "radio".
- jmward01 2y ago
  It would be great to be able to buy a car and then delete the OS and install something I trusted on it but I can't imagine they will ever allow that. (If this is a real thing and I don't know about it please post here!) The printer world is the model I bet the car companies are all looking at WRT this approach. Litigate/claim DRM/make it hard or impossible for aftermarket/etc etc. Basically, these companies are the adversary as opposed to a partner in your driving experience.
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    Not only will "they" fight you but even here on a place literally called Hacker News will people screech about how you shouldn't be able to run your own software on your own car because of safety implications or whatever
    - jmward01 2y ago
      There are places where it makes sense that only audited software should be allowed, but the big touch-screen in the middle of the vehicle isn't one of them. That shouldn't have access to safety related systems (other than reporting) so there shouldn't be a safety concern with wiping it and putting what I want on it.
      - Ancapistani 2y ago
        > That shouldn't have access to safety related systems (other than reporting) so there shouldn't be a safety concern with wiping it and putting what I want on it. It does, though. My wife drive a 2019 F-150 Platinum. The only way to change the behavior of at least half of the features of that vehicle is through the infotainment system. My understanding is that it's actually running a Linux kernel under the hood - literally in this case! - but it's not exactly an open and well-documented system.
- photonthug 2y ago
  > or just modify them Sorry but this is just not an appropriate level of outrage and reads like corporate apologism. If you go to the doctor for a broken arm, you don’t expect to get an inner ear implant whispering “wouldn’t you like a Coca Cola?” as part of the fix. Sure maybe another doctor will take it out, but it’s abusive and unnecessary, and fixing the abuse after the fact is just extra cost for the customer. In any sane world, the market would recognize that thirsty bullshit like this is a signal that the perpetrators are completely out of ideas in their field and have started grasping at tiny amounts of cash they can get by selling their customers instead of their products, rather than being in it for the long term. In other words.. all in on looting the brand value, taking the money, and exiting ASAP.
  - Retric 2y ago
    You misunderstood my point, I’m saying corporations are facing real hard limits here. My first option would be to buy some other car. However of that’s not possible, I would pay several thousand dollars and deal with a rough interior to avoid Ads that play on my cars console and speakers.
potato3732842 2y ago
>Same goes for cars. If enough people refrain from buying new cars, and put in the effort to keep their older cars on the road, maybe manufacturers will take the hint. The opposite seems to be what happens. The manufacturers cater even harder to premium consumers who aren't in it for the long haul so you get heated subscription seats and stupid doodads that nobody needs but seem impressive on the test drive.
- bluGill 2y ago
  They can only pull that off because used car buyers put up with it. People who buy used cars have the option of buying a non-luxury new car, but they have consistently chosen the luxury versions used. (all cars have a lot of luxury features, but the least luxury models exist and don't sell well)
bluGill 2y ago
For how long? Used TVs don't last forever. I just bought a new car (well 3 years old) because the transmission was going on the old one and at 240k miles the cost to fix it was more than the car was worth. Even if I had fixed it, the body was already showing signs of rust. (the new one is also a plug in hybrid which I believe over 10 years will save the difference between fixing the old one and this one - but only time will tell)

Retric 2y ago

Or just modify them. People used to replace their stereo, I suspect there would be a real market for add free infotainment systems.

smackeyacky 2y ago
This is already difficult on 20 year old vehicles, in the future it might be impossible. The combination of weird speaker ohm specs, CAN Bus controlled factory amplifiers, integrated vehicle information systems (where the display is across several screens) in modern cars and the abandonment of the DIN stereo size make doing aftermarket installs harder and harder. The Chinese are producing some astounding things - you can buy a drop-in centre console replacement for an older Chrysler 300C that looks factory but has a big touch screen, Carplay/Android Auto and a dongle that interfaces with the CAN bus based amplifier and steering wheel buttons. I suspect for really popular cars this will be an option, but it can't be done for every car released.
- bombcar 2y ago
  This is already a huge issue - I actually had to pay attention to CarPlay integration because most cars the infotainment system is tied to the car itself (and not just the steering wheel controls), and you need it. Many of the car's settings can't be changed anywhere but on the "radio".
jmward01 2y ago
It would be great to be able to buy a car and then delete the OS and install something I trusted on it but I can't imagine they will ever allow that. (If this is a real thing and I don't know about it please post here!) The printer world is the model I bet the car companies are all looking at WRT this approach. Litigate/claim DRM/make it hard or impossible for aftermarket/etc etc. Basically, these companies are the adversary as opposed to a partner in your driving experience.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  Not only will "they" fight you but even here on a place literally called Hacker News will people screech about how you shouldn't be able to run your own software on your own car because of safety implications or whatever
  - jmward01 2y ago
    There are places where it makes sense that only audited software should be allowed, but the big touch-screen in the middle of the vehicle isn't one of them. That shouldn't have access to safety related systems (other than reporting) so there shouldn't be a safety concern with wiping it and putting what I want on it.
    - Ancapistani 2y ago
      > That shouldn't have access to safety related systems (other than reporting) so there shouldn't be a safety concern with wiping it and putting what I want on it. It does, though. My wife drive a 2019 F-150 Platinum. The only way to change the behavior of at least half of the features of that vehicle is through the infotainment system. My understanding is that it's actually running a Linux kernel under the hood - literally in this case! - but it's not exactly an open and well-documented system.
photonthug 2y ago
> or just modify them Sorry but this is just not an appropriate level of outrage and reads like corporate apologism. If you go to the doctor for a broken arm, you don’t expect to get an inner ear implant whispering “wouldn’t you like a Coca Cola?” as part of the fix. Sure maybe another doctor will take it out, but it’s abusive and unnecessary, and fixing the abuse after the fact is just extra cost for the customer. In any sane world, the market would recognize that thirsty bullshit like this is a signal that the perpetrators are completely out of ideas in their field and have started grasping at tiny amounts of cash they can get by selling their customers instead of their products, rather than being in it for the long term. In other words.. all in on looting the brand value, taking the money, and exiting ASAP.
- Retric 2y ago
  You misunderstood my point, I’m saying corporations are facing real hard limits here. My first option would be to buy some other car. However of that’s not possible, I would pay several thousand dollars and deal with a rough interior to avoid Ads that play on my cars console and speakers.

potato3732842 2y ago

>Same goes for cars. If enough people refrain from buying new cars, and put in the effort to keep their older cars on the road, maybe manufacturers will take the hint. The opposite seems to be what happens. The manufacturers cater even harder to premium consumers who aren't in it for the long haul so you get heated subscription seats and stupid doodads that nobody needs but seem impressive on the test drive.

bluGill 2y ago
They can only pull that off because used car buyers put up with it. People who buy used cars have the option of buying a non-luxury new car, but they have consistently chosen the luxury versions used. (all cars have a lot of luxury features, but the least luxury models exist and don't sell well)

bluGill 2y ago

For how long? Used TVs don't last forever. I just bought a new car (well 3 years old) because the transmission was going on the old one and at 240k miles the cost to fix it was more than the car was worth. Even if I had fixed it, the body was already showing signs of rust. (the new one is also a plug in hybrid which I believe over 10 years will save the difference between fixing the old one and this one - but only time will tell)