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Also selling weapons. What this idiot of Trump seems to have missed is that countries have been purchasing weapons to the US to actually purchase US protection

by forty 2y ago

Also selling weapons. What this idiot of Trump seems to have missed is that countries have been purchasing weapons to the US to actually purchase US protection (like Australia did when they cancelled the submarine purchase they did to France to purchase US ones instead). Now that the US has announced being an unreliable protector, there is probably good business opportunities for all the countries that are nuclear powers and big arm dealers (such as France).

aerostable_slug 2y ago
Depends on the weapons. Certainly France is competitive when it comes to ships and many expendable munitions, but they aren't selling F-35s and the US is, and so far it seems that the juice is worth the substantial squeeze when it comes to that jet. The race is largely for second, because first place (the Lightning) is so far in front of the pack.
- mongol 2y ago
  That juice is poisonous. The plane may be alright, but it is no longer a wise strategy to build security using US equipment, unless you are the US.
- ldng 2y ago
  We have ITAR-free Rafale. And for better or worse, we don't "vendor lock-in" our planes.
- forty 2y ago
  European countries like Germany have been purchasing F-35 for the main reason that it's the only plane which can carry US nuclear weapons, which is mandatory for Germany to carry its obligations to participate to NATO nuclear defense [1] They will hopefully purchase Eurofighter or Rafale or whatever else in the future. [1] (fr) https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2022/03/15/la-decision-de-l-allemagne-de-se-doter-de-f-35-risque-de-creer-des-tensions-avec-ses-partenaires-europeens_6117588_3210.html https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2022/03/15/la-d...
- palata 2y ago
  The F-35 is an expensive, very criticised (even inside the US) plane and the US notoriously have some kind of backdoor to it. It makes no sense to me that the EU would buy F-35 other than as a way to give money to the US ("buying protection").
  - Vilian 2y ago
    F-35 is cheaper than the f14 converting, so not a good argument, the high selling numbers of it help drive the price down
    - palata 2y ago
      My point was that the F-35 is more expensive than European planes which don't have a US backdoor. In fact I think it was the US army that complained about the F-35 being way too expensive.

by forty 2y ago

aerostable_slug 2y ago

Depends on the weapons. Certainly France is competitive when it comes to ships and many expendable munitions, but they aren't selling F-35s and the US is, and so far it seems that the juice is worth the substantial squeeze when it comes to that jet. The race is largely for second, because first place (the Lightning) is so far in front of the pack.

mongol 2y ago
That juice is poisonous. The plane may be alright, but it is no longer a wise strategy to build security using US equipment, unless you are the US.
ldng 2y ago
We have ITAR-free Rafale. And for better or worse, we don't "vendor lock-in" our planes.
forty 2y ago
European countries like Germany have been purchasing F-35 for the main reason that it's the only plane which can carry US nuclear weapons, which is mandatory for Germany to carry its obligations to participate to NATO nuclear defense [1] They will hopefully purchase Eurofighter or Rafale or whatever else in the future. [1] (fr) https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2022/03/15/la-decision-de-l-allemagne-de-se-doter-de-f-35-risque-de-creer-des-tensions-avec-ses-partenaires-europeens_6117588_3210.html https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2022/03/15/la-d...
palata 2y ago
The F-35 is an expensive, very criticised (even inside the US) plane and the US notoriously have some kind of backdoor to it. It makes no sense to me that the EU would buy F-35 other than as a way to give money to the US ("buying protection").
- Vilian 2y ago
  F-35 is cheaper than the f14 converting, so not a good argument, the high selling numbers of it help drive the price down
  - palata 2y ago
    My point was that the F-35 is more expensive than European planes which don't have a US backdoor. In fact I think it was the US army that complained about the F-35 being way too expensive.