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I never get this perspective. Firstly we do give them a crap load of revenue. Secondly it'd probably trash any of their non US business almost immediately as pe

by ohgr 2y ago

I never get this perspective. Firstly we do give them a crap load of revenue. Secondly it'd probably trash any of their non US business almost immediately as people start looking for contingency in case they pull out of other countries. Thirdly they didn't pull out of China. And fourthly there are a lot of Apple engineering staff here in the UK - it'd cripple them because they won't move to the US. They will comply with the law and make a lot of noise and not a lot else.

wil421 2y ago
How can a company the size of Apple be crippled by employees in the UK?
- ohgr 2y ago
  Literally a large chunk of the ARM core team are in Cambridge including most of the GPU folk and there are a ton of infra and software team in a couple of other UK locations. On top of that, a big chunk of the follow the sun on call engineering (SRE) are here that look after global infra and most of the European support operation are in Northern Ireland.
  - sureIy 2y ago
    Fruit Engineering Ltd. hires brits and contracts with offshore Apple Inc. The former does not have the keys and cannot be forced to do anything iCloud-side. It's not like corporate doesn't know all the tricks already. The only reason they need is whether the UK market is worth the hassle. That's all.
theshackleford 2y ago
Define a “crapload.” My understanding is that it’s actually a number that could be walked away from.
- ohgr 2y ago
  8000 staff including very high level engineering and technical.
  - theshackleford 2y ago
    Isn't that potentially devastating to the UK, not Apple in the long run? Choosing to walk away from the market in terms of supplying goods does not mean needing to walk away from high level engineering staff. Of course, you may mean these staff are only required to service the UK market...but it sounds like you mean they are valuable to Apple, at which point I am unsure as to why they would not be retained/shifted as appropriate. Also my apologies, I assumed revenue here. Also thank you, I had not considered staffing, but it makes sense.
    - ohgr 2y ago
      Yes it’s more critical staff. And it’s more a cultural thing. I know a couple of Apple folk and they will definitely not relocate to retain the job. Especially in the current political climate. You don’t actually need as much money to survive in the UK as the US for example. So there isn’t the motivator to retain high level salaries other than luxury. It would be “no thanks” and take a 30% cut to go and work somewhere else.
      - theshackleford 2y ago
        > Yes it’s more critical staff. And it’s more a cultural thing. Ah yup, that 100% makes sense and I don't know why I didnt consider it. I should no more than anyone the value of more "key staff" as it were, and the impact a shock to those kind of staff can have. > You don’t actually need as much money to survive in the UK as the US for example. So there isn’t the motivator to retain high level salaries other than luxury. I did not know this, I am over in AU and don't know that much about the UK to be honest. I've only heard things in passing about London really and even then all ive heard is "VERY EXPENSIVE, RENT BAD" so thats super interesting. > It would be “no thanks” and take a 30% cut to go and work somewhere else. Yes, good for them too. I have taken (including recently) such pay cuts because I have strong opinions of where I will work, or who I will work with. Thanks for coming back to answer my questions, I found it super informative. I didnt intend to sound aggressive in my first response so i'm glad you did!
pertymcpert 2y ago
The Apple engineer staff can keep their jobs.
Lanolderen 2y ago
The perspective is that if Apple bricks its devices for a couple days in the UK the pitchforks will come out considering they have the moral high ground and the better marketing team to pitch it to the general population. Whether it's good for a US corpo to interfere with the stable 1984 progression of the UK is another issue. If I were in a decision making position at Apple I wouldn't want to bother with this either. Just take the easy marketing W and move on. Maybe prepare a plan for market exit just in case they're not satisfied with disabling encryption and demand a global backdoor.

by ohgr 2y ago

wil421 2y ago

How can a company the size of Apple be crippled by employees in the UK?

ohgr 2y ago
Literally a large chunk of the ARM core team are in Cambridge including most of the GPU folk and there are a ton of infra and software team in a couple of other UK locations. On top of that, a big chunk of the follow the sun on call engineering (SRE) are here that look after global infra and most of the European support operation are in Northern Ireland.
- sureIy 2y ago
  Fruit Engineering Ltd. hires brits and contracts with offshore Apple Inc. The former does not have the keys and cannot be forced to do anything iCloud-side. It's not like corporate doesn't know all the tricks already. The only reason they need is whether the UK market is worth the hassle. That's all.

theshackleford 2y ago

Define a “crapload.” My understanding is that it’s actually a number that could be walked away from.

ohgr 2y ago
8000 staff including very high level engineering and technical.
- theshackleford 2y ago
  Isn't that potentially devastating to the UK, not Apple in the long run? Choosing to walk away from the market in terms of supplying goods does not mean needing to walk away from high level engineering staff. Of course, you may mean these staff are only required to service the UK market...but it sounds like you mean they are valuable to Apple, at which point I am unsure as to why they would not be retained/shifted as appropriate. Also my apologies, I assumed revenue here. Also thank you, I had not considered staffing, but it makes sense.
  - ohgr 2y ago
    Yes it’s more critical staff. And it’s more a cultural thing. I know a couple of Apple folk and they will definitely not relocate to retain the job. Especially in the current political climate. You don’t actually need as much money to survive in the UK as the US for example. So there isn’t the motivator to retain high level salaries other than luxury. It would be “no thanks” and take a 30% cut to go and work somewhere else.
    - theshackleford 2y ago
      > Yes it’s more critical staff. And it’s more a cultural thing. Ah yup, that 100% makes sense and I don't know why I didnt consider it. I should no more than anyone the value of more "key staff" as it were, and the impact a shock to those kind of staff can have. > You don’t actually need as much money to survive in the UK as the US for example. So there isn’t the motivator to retain high level salaries other than luxury. I did not know this, I am over in AU and don't know that much about the UK to be honest. I've only heard things in passing about London really and even then all ive heard is "VERY EXPENSIVE, RENT BAD" so thats super interesting. > It would be “no thanks” and take a 30% cut to go and work somewhere else. Yes, good for them too. I have taken (including recently) such pay cuts because I have strong opinions of where I will work, or who I will work with. Thanks for coming back to answer my questions, I found it super informative. I didnt intend to sound aggressive in my first response so i'm glad you did!

pertymcpert 2y ago

The Apple engineer staff can keep their jobs.

Lanolderen 2y ago

The perspective is that if Apple bricks its devices for a couple days in the UK the pitchforks will come out considering they have the moral high ground and the better marketing team to pitch it to the general population. Whether it's good for a US corpo to interfere with the stable 1984 progression of the UK is another issue. If I were in a decision making position at Apple I wouldn't want to bother with this either. Just take the easy marketing W and move on. Maybe prepare a plan for market exit just in case they're not satisfied with disabling encryption and demand a global backdoor.