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1. I run Docker and Podman on my Macs. 2. If you mean MDM, there are several good options. Screen sharing and SSH are build in. 3. In what sense? 4. `uv pyth

1. I run Docker and Podman on my Macs. 2. If you mean MDM, there are several good options. Screen sharing and SSH are build in. 3. In what sense? 4. `uv python install whatever` is infinitely better than upgrading on the OS vendor’s schedule. 5. What does that affect?

mschuster91 2y ago
> 1. I run Docker and Podman on my Macs. That's using a Linux VM. The idea people are asking about is native process isolation. Yes you'd have to rebuild Docker containers based on some sort of (small) macOS base layer and Homebrew/Macports, but hey. Being able to even run nodejs or php with its thousands of files natively would be a gamechanger in performance.
- hedora 2y ago
  Also, it were possible to containerize macos, or even do an unintended vm installation, then it’d be possible for apple to automatically regression test their stuff.
devmor 2y ago
>I run Docker and Podman on my Macs. The same way Windows users run them. In a linux VM. You don't get real on-hardware containerization.
- naikrovek 2y ago
  surprisingly, Windows containers on Windows are not run in a VM. Well, not necessarily; they can be. It is definitely odd that Macs have no native container support, though, especially when you learn that Windows does.
  - devmor 2y ago
    That is an important point, I didn't really think of it since I've never had a reason to use Windows containers.
    - naikrovek 2y ago
      that's ok, no one thinks of windows, and fewer people than that would ever use a windows container.
  - p_ing 2y ago
    Well, Windows (in a form) is the hypervisor for the Azure infrastructure. Azure Web Sites when run as Windows/IIS are Windows containers. Makes sense. Honestly I don't know what XNU/Darwin is good for. It doesn't do anything especially well compared to *BSD, Linux, and NT.
    - hedora 2y ago
      Its async i/o APIs are best in class (i.e., compatible with BSD, and not Linux’s epoll tire fire). Not disagreeing though.
      - p_ing 2y ago
        Linux has io_uring. NT outclasses XNU by a long shot with IOCP, Registered I/O, and IO Ring (io_uring copy).
- kstrauser 2y ago
  Ah, I see what you’re saying. Basically, Darwin doesn’t support cgroups, so Docker runs Linux in a VM to get that.
  - devmor 2y ago
    I don't think it supports userland namespaces either, which is another important part of container isolation.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      It has partial namespaces support for the iOS simulator.
thecosmicfrog 2y ago
Thanks for introducing me to `uv`. I've been looking for a tool that integrates pip and pyenv/virtualenv.

mschuster91 2y ago

> 1. I run Docker and Podman on my Macs. That's using a Linux VM. The idea people are asking about is native process isolation. Yes you'd have to rebuild Docker containers based on some sort of (small) macOS base layer and Homebrew/Macports, but hey. Being able to even run nodejs or php with its thousands of files natively would be a gamechanger in performance.

hedora 2y ago
Also, it were possible to containerize macos, or even do an unintended vm installation, then it’d be possible for apple to automatically regression test their stuff.

devmor 2y ago

>I run Docker and Podman on my Macs. The same way Windows users run them. In a linux VM. You don't get real on-hardware containerization.

naikrovek 2y ago
surprisingly, Windows containers on Windows are not run in a VM. Well, not necessarily; they can be. It is definitely odd that Macs have no native container support, though, especially when you learn that Windows does.
- devmor 2y ago
  That is an important point, I didn't really think of it since I've never had a reason to use Windows containers.
  - naikrovek 2y ago
    that's ok, no one thinks of windows, and fewer people than that would ever use a windows container.
- p_ing 2y ago
  Well, Windows (in a form) is the hypervisor for the Azure infrastructure. Azure Web Sites when run as Windows/IIS are Windows containers. Makes sense. Honestly I don't know what XNU/Darwin is good for. It doesn't do anything especially well compared to *BSD, Linux, and NT.
  - hedora 2y ago
    Its async i/o APIs are best in class (i.e., compatible with BSD, and not Linux’s epoll tire fire). Not disagreeing though.
    - p_ing 2y ago
      Linux has io_uring. NT outclasses XNU by a long shot with IOCP, Registered I/O, and IO Ring (io_uring copy).
kstrauser 2y ago
Ah, I see what you’re saying. Basically, Darwin doesn’t support cgroups, so Docker runs Linux in a VM to get that.
- devmor 2y ago
  I don't think it supports userland namespaces either, which is another important part of container isolation.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    It has partial namespaces support for the iOS simulator.

thecosmicfrog 2y ago

Thanks for introducing me to `uv`. I've been looking for a tool that integrates pip and pyenv/virtualenv.