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> We should’ve flipped our thinking on human exceptionalism long ago. Disagree. Humans are hard-wired for anthropomorphism. We recognize two dots and an arc as

> We should’ve flipped our thinking on human exceptionalism long ago. Disagree. Humans are hard-wired for anthropomorphism. We recognize two dots and an arc as a human face. Taking the hard-wired position and labeling eveything as "human-like" by default is lazy and wrong.

latexr 2y ago
My point is precisely that humans aren’t exceptional and that we should have already left that thinking behind us. How does your point disagree with that? I’m not even remotely suggestion we label anything as “human-like”, I’m advocating for the polar opposite.
- otabdeveloper4 2y ago
  > My point is precisely that humans aren’t exceptional We don't know that. You're just assuming things.
  - latexr 2y ago
    We do know that. The proof is in the myriad of studies which conclude some animal does something which we previously thought was exclusively human. Human exceptionalism is reduced by every single one of those, never increased. Sure, it is plausible there are indeed some things only humans can do. But at the same time there are a myriad of other things other animals find trivial and we know we can’t do. Thus we’re not exceptional, just different like every other species is. We’ll be much better served scientifically by being humble than by believing everything we do is unique and being constantly proven wrong.
    - card_zero 2y ago
      None of the hundreds of studies with the tedious refrain of "humans aren't unique in doing X" reveal that a human is basically a parrot. There's an endless desire to insinuate it, and say that animals are people too. It's a strong and stupid urge. Animals are nice, they have faces and eyes, they give attention, they can cooperate with us, they can be friends, of a kind, and are warm and cuddly, and can do things that seem clever for animals. But they aren't people. Eh, why do I bother, there will be another of these studies, and another, and a decade from now I'll be posting on a similar thread. I should know better. But these studies aren't making progress toward something, they aren't building up a weight of evidence where the dam will eventually burst and we'll say "oh those dogs and crows and octopuses and horses were people all along, how blind of us not to notice". No, things like the mirror test for self awareness (which is passed by some fish, but not by dogs) are sketchy and inconclusive, and every such "animals are just like us by the way" study that I've seen over the decades has been sketchy and inconclusive, and they're all just piddling around trying to discover something that isn't there to be discovered.
      - circlefavshape 2y ago
        > There's an endless desire to insinuate it, and say that animals are people too. What? No there isn't! "People are animals" is not equivalent to "animals are people"
        card_zero 2y ago
        Right, but then it's not a surprising claim. What viewpoint does it oppose? If you're saying that people are "animals plus", nobody says otherwise. We are after all undeniably made out of meat and shaped like apes.
        kerkeslager 2y ago
        > What viewpoint does it oppose? The viewpoint expressed two comments before yours: human exceptionalism.
        otabdeveloper4 2y ago
        > and shaped like apes Actually, we aren't. Apes have a body built for climbing trees. (Like all primates.) Homo sapiens definitely doesn't. It's one of nature's big unsolved mysteries how that came to be. But as always these discussions are just a vehicle for making facile political points, talking about science is a distant second.

latexr 2y ago

My point is precisely that humans aren’t exceptional and that we should have already left that thinking behind us. How does your point disagree with that? I’m not even remotely suggestion we label anything as “human-like”, I’m advocating for the polar opposite.

otabdeveloper4 2y ago
> My point is precisely that humans aren’t exceptional We don't know that. You're just assuming things.
- latexr 2y ago
  We do know that. The proof is in the myriad of studies which conclude some animal does something which we previously thought was exclusively human. Human exceptionalism is reduced by every single one of those, never increased. Sure, it is plausible there are indeed some things only humans can do. But at the same time there are a myriad of other things other animals find trivial and we know we can’t do. Thus we’re not exceptional, just different like every other species is. We’ll be much better served scientifically by being humble than by believing everything we do is unique and being constantly proven wrong.
  - card_zero 2y ago
    None of the hundreds of studies with the tedious refrain of "humans aren't unique in doing X" reveal that a human is basically a parrot. There's an endless desire to insinuate it, and say that animals are people too. It's a strong and stupid urge. Animals are nice, they have faces and eyes, they give attention, they can cooperate with us, they can be friends, of a kind, and are warm and cuddly, and can do things that seem clever for animals. But they aren't people. Eh, why do I bother, there will be another of these studies, and another, and a decade from now I'll be posting on a similar thread. I should know better. But these studies aren't making progress toward something, they aren't building up a weight of evidence where the dam will eventually burst and we'll say "oh those dogs and crows and octopuses and horses were people all along, how blind of us not to notice". No, things like the mirror test for self awareness (which is passed by some fish, but not by dogs) are sketchy and inconclusive, and every such "animals are just like us by the way" study that I've seen over the decades has been sketchy and inconclusive, and they're all just piddling around trying to discover something that isn't there to be discovered.
    - circlefavshape 2y ago
      > There's an endless desire to insinuate it, and say that animals are people too. What? No there isn't! "People are animals" is not equivalent to "animals are people"
      - card_zero 2y ago
        Right, but then it's not a surprising claim. What viewpoint does it oppose? If you're saying that people are "animals plus", nobody says otherwise. We are after all undeniably made out of meat and shaped like apes.
        kerkeslager 2y ago
        > What viewpoint does it oppose? The viewpoint expressed two comments before yours: human exceptionalism.
        otabdeveloper4 2y ago
        > and shaped like apes Actually, we aren't. Apes have a body built for climbing trees. (Like all primates.) Homo sapiens definitely doesn't. It's one of nature's big unsolved mysteries how that came to be. But as always these discussions are just a vehicle for making facile political points, talking about science is a distant second.