7 ms·

is there any reliable source for that "going to jail in europe for posting memes"? I keep seeing this argument in online arguments, but can not find a credible

is there any reliable source for that "going to jail in europe for posting memes"? I keep seeing this argument in online arguments, but can not find a credible source

Clubber 2y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925 https://www.cheshire.police.uk/news/cheshire/news/articles/2024/8/men-jailed-after-posting-racist-messages-on-social-media/ https://www.cheshire.police.uk/news/cheshire/news/articles/2... These things seem abhorrent to Americans who have nearly unlimited free speech protection.
- boesboes 2y ago
  Lol, nearly unlimited my ass. Not anymore anyway, under the new regime
- dudefeliciano 2y ago
  I mean that glasgow guy was sentenced 800 pounds, went viral from those videos, and now has a huge youtube following...seems like a great deal About those second 2 guys, what's that phrase that americans like so much? Fuck around and find out. I think the US, even in their nearly unlimited free speech, has similar laws in regards to inciting violence. Defamation, slander, fighting words, are also not protected by free speech. So really, the only difference between the US and UK is that the UK does not allow hate speech. Germany has some more regulations, but the real significant difference seems to be about not being allowed to display nazi symbols or denying the holocaust.
- sgt101 2y ago
  The two UK cases: - Nazi pug man got a fine of £800; no jail. - Cheshire people; in the context of rioting and the consequences of rioting. For the record I think (personal view only) that the Nazi pug man should never have been prosecuted, I personally find it grossly offensive but I think that the harm of stopping people saying these things is greater than the harm of the idiot saying them. The Cheshire thing I find much more serious, it seemed to me that this was about people calling for other people to get hurt and killed. Is it really the case that it's ok to threaten people or to call for violence against a community in the USA? Also, what about folks like Snowdon and Assange? I mean if freedom of speech is absolute in the USA why can't they just tell the CCP about USA nuclear control?
  - Clubber 2y ago
    >Also, what about folks like Snowdon and Assange? I mean if freedom of speech is absolute in the USA why can't they just tell the CCP about USA nuclear control? Why do people constantly and intentionally misconstrue arguments? It's so obnoxious and intellectually dishonest. I didn't say it was absolute. It's like people can't even have a conversation anymore without dealing with this. >I think that the harm of stopping people saying these things is greater than the harm of the idiot saying them. Oh, so you're a Nazi sympathizer? See how annoying that is when people intentionally misconstrue arguments? I know it's a habit these days with the news and I don't mean to jump on your shit, it's quite common; but it's bleeding into person to person conversation and you just can't have any meaningful conversation this way.
    - dudefeliciano 2y ago
      I did not see that as an attack towards you or miscontruing any argument you made, rather putting things in perspective for people who may believe JD Vance & co when he talks about freedom of speech. I also did not see your statement "seems abhorrent to americans" as a value judgement you hold in regards to european freedom of expression laws.
      - Clubber 2y ago
        >> These things seem abhorrent to Americans who have nearly unlimited free speech protection. > Also, what about folks like Snowdon and Assange? I mean if freedom of speech is absolute in the USA why can't they just tell the CCP about USA nuclear control? I said it was near unlimited protection and he claimed I said it was absolute so he could make a counter argument. He intentionally misconstrued my argument to make a counter argument. What am I supposed to do, defend and argument I didn't make? It kills any conversation or sharing of ideas. It's annoying. The news does this all the time.
  - macNchz 2y ago
    > Is it really the case that it's ok to threaten people or to call for violence against a community in the USA? In cases like that, courts in the US make the determination as to whether the speech is protected based on whether it may cause “imminent lawless action”—hard to say in the Cheshire case without seeing what they were actually posting, but encouraging people to start violent riots would not be protected in the US either. There are plenty of cases of people getting arrested in the US for Facebook posts inciting violence.
- card_zero 2y ago
  Hmm, I found this: https://web.archive.org/web/20070315091415/http://news.com.com/Create+an+e-annoyance,+go+to+jail/2010-1028_3-6022491.html https://web.archive.org/web/20070315091415/http://news.com.c... "Whoever...utilizes any device or software that can be used to originate telecommunications or other types of communications that are transmitted, in whole or in part, by the Internet... without disclosing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person...who receives the communications...shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both." Drawn up in 2005, passed by Bush in 2006.
- foldr 2y ago
  You can also be arrested and jailed for social media posts in the US if those posts break the law. For example: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/social-media-influencer-douglass-mackey-sentenced-after-conviction-election https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/social-media-influencer... This “arrested for a meme” meme is so dumb. What’s important is the content of the meme, not the fact that it’s a meme.
ekanes 2y ago
While not an answer to your specific question, this popped into my head as being similar in tone to what I think you're asking about. https://reason.com/2024/10/17/british-man-convicted-of-criminal-charges-for-praying-silently-near-abortion-clinic/ https://reason.com/2024/10/17/british-man-convicted-of-crimi... (An example of something that might be perceived by some as a judicial over-reaction based on perceived offensiveness to others.)
- dudefeliciano 2y ago
  From what I understand the Public Spaces Protection Order is a law that exists exactly for this reason, how would this be a judicial overreaction? Seems similar to the German law that makes it illegal to wear politcal symbols or talk politics outside of polling places. There is an undefined "buffer zone" outside of the voting location where, if you display political symbols, you will be arrested. This is a limitation of freedom of expression, but IMHO it makes total sense.
  - yostrovs 2y ago
    The man in the linked article did not display any signs or symbols, did not engage in speech, and did not "express" himself. If standing solemn is an arrestable offense, then anyone doing anything is subject to arrest. The police may think fascist thoughts are running through any random person's mind at this very moment.
    - dudefeliciano 2y ago
      This makes it sound like the police just passed by, saw him there and decided to arrest him, when in fact: "On the day, he was asked to leave the area by a community officer who spoke to him for an hour and 40 minutes - but he refused." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g9kp7r00vo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g9kp7r00vo
  - gizmo 2y ago
    Germany is indeed like the UK in that it also does not believe in basic free speech protections. These anti-speech laws don't produce much domestic outrage because the people of Europe just like their politicians don't believe free speech is important. They believe anti-speech laws "make total sense". In many European countries you get visited by the police if you post the wrong kind of memes. You get arrested if you wave a Palestinian flag. Insulting a politician or police officer has been criminalized. These things all have a chilling effect on free expression. The US has much stronger free speech protections than Europe. (At least for now.)
emsy 2y ago
It’s true for Germany. There recently was a case of a podcaster whose acquaintances were tapped and was apprehended while walking with his 1yo for posting memes. An AfD politician was fined 6000€ for posting crime statistics. A man had his house searched for sharing a meme of calling a politician something along the lines of „idiot“. There’s also the 60 minutes interview where prosecutors brag about confiscating devices for posting memes. From what I hear from acquaintances and social media, the UK is even worse.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- dudefeliciano 2y ago
  ok but I was asking for some reliable sources, not a paragraph of anecdotes. I could go google each one myself, but I don't even want to imagine in what kind of hellhole websites I will end up in if I do that.
  - fwn 2y ago
    I'm not the parent, but one reference they made but didn't link was this 60 Minutes clip "Policing the internet in Germany, where hate speech, insults are a crime". It was a bit of a meme in Germany. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc Still, the author of the original article has some pretty polarising and crude views, and I think it's valuable to keep that context in mind. The key is not to be lazy and just dismiss everything that doesn't come from the smoothest PR media personality. For me, it felt like reading a frustrated author arguing against over-reliance on the service sector as an economy, given the dependencies it creates. There is certainly nationalism, realism/geopolitical views and a somewhat raw criticism of the current monetary system in the mix. The author sprinkles a lot of cultural references all over it and concludes with a tongue-in-cheek hint at an accelerationist strategy. .. based on that random blogpost I probably still wouldn't buy any gold just yet.
  - wahnfrieden 2y ago
    German police raid homes of activists for making anti-Israel social media posts https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-police-raid-properties-pro-palestinian-group-banned-2024-05-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-police-raid-prop... (Trump also just tweeted that activists will be imprisoned)
acatton 2y ago
There are multiple cases in Germany (where I live). I cannot find them all, but "Pimmelgate" is a famous one where one guy on twitter (that's what it was called at the time) told a local politician "Du bist ein Pimmel" (in English: "You're a dick") and the next day the police showed up at his apartment and searched it. The issue is the harassment. Most of these cases are baseless and get dropped once presented to the public prosecutor. But it puts unwarranted stress on people who just opened their mouth, regardless if I disagree with what they had said. If these cases were moved forward, they could end up in front of the European Court of Human Rights, where Germany and Austria are among the worst offenders[1] when it comes to the article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights[2], which grantees free speech in the EU. Usually these individual cases are used by neo-conservatives to criticize Europe and describe it as (their words) "a socialist hellhole." While this argument (= "there is no free speech in Europe") might be based on some truth, and while I agree that the free speech situation in most of Europe could be improved, I think it is grossly exaggerated. [1] https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/#{%22languageisocode%22:[%22ENG%22],%22respondent%22:[%22DEU%22],%22documentcollectionid2%22:[%22GRANDCHAMBER%22,%22CHAMBER%22]} https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/#{%22languageisocode%22:[%22ENG%2... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights#Article_10_%E2%80%93_expression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_R...
- dudefeliciano 2y ago
  My question was specifically about being jailed for expressing their opinion? Is this something that happens all the time in Germany (from what you wrote I would say no. It's a hassle but at most you get a fine that you can appeal, right?). Americans seem to think that people post a meme and end up in an american style max-security federal prison or something, while actually the offender gets a minor slap on the wrist.
  - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
    It doesn't happen, unless your opinion is something very specific like holocaust denial and you double down on it multiple times. People do not get jailed for posting memes.
  - 2y ago
sdsd 2y ago
I suppose this doesn't remotely qualify as "memes", but Mr. Bond went to prison for ten years in Germany for making racist rap songs.
- ShellfishMeme 2y ago
  It was Austria, and I think it's pretty telling that when free speech limitations come up in these kind of threads, it's always neo-Nazi stuff.
  - dudefeliciano 2y ago
    seriously why do people get so mad that a rapper can't release such classics like "Mein Kampf mixtapes" or "A Nazi goes to Afrika" in the country that birthed the guy who destroyed the world. (I know why they get mad)
FergusArgyll 2y ago
"A man has been jailed today after pleading guilty to posting grossly offensive messages on social media." - The Crown Prosecution Service https://www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/man-jailed-offensive-social-media-posts-wake-recent-disorder https://www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/man-jailed-offensive-...
- gruez 2y ago
  This hinges entirely on what the captions were. What did they say? Even US free speech laws doesn't protect certain forms of speech (eg. "imminent lawless action"), so whether it's a meme or not holds little relevance.
- jsiepkes 2y ago
  This wasn't someone posting just a meme online or anything. The guy was posting racist shit during civil unrest [1]. Literally throwing oil on a fire. Yeah, you are going to get prosecuted for that. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gdww5lx2vo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gdww5lx2vo
  - FergusArgyll 2y ago
    "In those wretched Countries where a Man cannot call his Tongue his own, he can scarce call any Thing else his own. Whoever would overthrow the Liberty of a Nation, must begin by subduing the Freeness of Speech; a Thing terrible to Publick Traytors." - Benjamin Franklin This is why we fought a war to be separate from your "wretched" country. You're justifying jail time for racist speech!
    - dudefeliciano 2y ago
      > he can scarce call any Thing else his own Ironic coming from a future slave owner. He did become an abolitionist, after travelling to France and England and being exposed to some, for Americans, pretty radical ideas.
    - jsiepkes 2y ago
      > You're justifying jail time for racist speech! For inciting further civil unrest during civil unrest. Kinda weird to just cherry pick some things from my post.
vincnetas 2y ago
meme is a very vague term. it could have been death threat meme. its like saying "he went to jail for speaking". well its possible and might be totally justified. depends on what was said. for example death treats, bomb threats, scamming people. its all fits under "he was speaking"
econ 2y ago
This should do it https://youtu.be/XkT0jIxwJOY?si=2XCc84FGyTFdPyHv https://youtu.be/XkT0jIxwJOY?si=2XCc84FGyTFdPyHv

is there any reliable source for that "going to jail in europe for posting memes"? I keep seeing this argument in online arguments, but can not find a credible source

Clubber 2y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925 https://www.cheshire.police.uk/news/cheshire/news/articles/2024/8/men-jailed-after-posting-racist-messages-on-social-media/ https://www.cheshire.police.uk/news/cheshire/news/articles/2... These things seem abhorrent to Americans who have nearly unlimited free speech protection.

boesboes 2y ago
Lol, nearly unlimited my ass. Not anymore anyway, under the new regime
dudefeliciano 2y ago
I mean that glasgow guy was sentenced 800 pounds, went viral from those videos, and now has a huge youtube following...seems like a great deal About those second 2 guys, what's that phrase that americans like so much? Fuck around and find out. I think the US, even in their nearly unlimited free speech, has similar laws in regards to inciting violence. Defamation, slander, fighting words, are also not protected by free speech. So really, the only difference between the US and UK is that the UK does not allow hate speech. Germany has some more regulations, but the real significant difference seems to be about not being allowed to display nazi symbols or denying the holocaust.
sgt101 2y ago
The two UK cases: - Nazi pug man got a fine of £800; no jail. - Cheshire people; in the context of rioting and the consequences of rioting. For the record I think (personal view only) that the Nazi pug man should never have been prosecuted, I personally find it grossly offensive but I think that the harm of stopping people saying these things is greater than the harm of the idiot saying them. The Cheshire thing I find much more serious, it seemed to me that this was about people calling for other people to get hurt and killed. Is it really the case that it's ok to threaten people or to call for violence against a community in the USA? Also, what about folks like Snowdon and Assange? I mean if freedom of speech is absolute in the USA why can't they just tell the CCP about USA nuclear control?
- Clubber 2y ago
  >Also, what about folks like Snowdon and Assange? I mean if freedom of speech is absolute in the USA why can't they just tell the CCP about USA nuclear control? Why do people constantly and intentionally misconstrue arguments? It's so obnoxious and intellectually dishonest. I didn't say it was absolute. It's like people can't even have a conversation anymore without dealing with this. >I think that the harm of stopping people saying these things is greater than the harm of the idiot saying them. Oh, so you're a Nazi sympathizer? See how annoying that is when people intentionally misconstrue arguments? I know it's a habit these days with the news and I don't mean to jump on your shit, it's quite common; but it's bleeding into person to person conversation and you just can't have any meaningful conversation this way.
  - dudefeliciano 2y ago
    I did not see that as an attack towards you or miscontruing any argument you made, rather putting things in perspective for people who may believe JD Vance & co when he talks about freedom of speech. I also did not see your statement "seems abhorrent to americans" as a value judgement you hold in regards to european freedom of expression laws.
    - Clubber 2y ago
      >> These things seem abhorrent to Americans who have nearly unlimited free speech protection. > Also, what about folks like Snowdon and Assange? I mean if freedom of speech is absolute in the USA why can't they just tell the CCP about USA nuclear control? I said it was near unlimited protection and he claimed I said it was absolute so he could make a counter argument. He intentionally misconstrued my argument to make a counter argument. What am I supposed to do, defend and argument I didn't make? It kills any conversation or sharing of ideas. It's annoying. The news does this all the time.
- macNchz 2y ago
  > Is it really the case that it's ok to threaten people or to call for violence against a community in the USA? In cases like that, courts in the US make the determination as to whether the speech is protected based on whether it may cause “imminent lawless action”—hard to say in the Cheshire case without seeing what they were actually posting, but encouraging people to start violent riots would not be protected in the US either. There are plenty of cases of people getting arrested in the US for Facebook posts inciting violence.
card_zero 2y ago
Hmm, I found this: https://web.archive.org/web/20070315091415/http://news.com.com/Create+an+e-annoyance,+go+to+jail/2010-1028_3-6022491.html https://web.archive.org/web/20070315091415/http://news.com.c... "Whoever...utilizes any device or software that can be used to originate telecommunications or other types of communications that are transmitted, in whole or in part, by the Internet... without disclosing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person...who receives the communications...shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both." Drawn up in 2005, passed by Bush in 2006.
foldr 2y ago
You can also be arrested and jailed for social media posts in the US if those posts break the law. For example: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/social-media-influencer-douglass-mackey-sentenced-after-conviction-election https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/social-media-influencer... This “arrested for a meme” meme is so dumb. What’s important is the content of the meme, not the fact that it’s a meme.

ekanes 2y ago

While not an answer to your specific question, this popped into my head as being similar in tone to what I think you're asking about. https://reason.com/2024/10/17/british-man-convicted-of-criminal-charges-for-praying-silently-near-abortion-clinic/ https://reason.com/2024/10/17/british-man-convicted-of-crimi... (An example of something that might be perceived by some as a judicial over-reaction based on perceived offensiveness to others.)

dudefeliciano 2y ago
From what I understand the Public Spaces Protection Order is a law that exists exactly for this reason, how would this be a judicial overreaction? Seems similar to the German law that makes it illegal to wear politcal symbols or talk politics outside of polling places. There is an undefined "buffer zone" outside of the voting location where, if you display political symbols, you will be arrested. This is a limitation of freedom of expression, but IMHO it makes total sense.
- yostrovs 2y ago
  The man in the linked article did not display any signs or symbols, did not engage in speech, and did not "express" himself. If standing solemn is an arrestable offense, then anyone doing anything is subject to arrest. The police may think fascist thoughts are running through any random person's mind at this very moment.
  - dudefeliciano 2y ago
    This makes it sound like the police just passed by, saw him there and decided to arrest him, when in fact: "On the day, he was asked to leave the area by a community officer who spoke to him for an hour and 40 minutes - but he refused." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g9kp7r00vo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g9kp7r00vo
- gizmo 2y ago
  Germany is indeed like the UK in that it also does not believe in basic free speech protections. These anti-speech laws don't produce much domestic outrage because the people of Europe just like their politicians don't believe free speech is important. They believe anti-speech laws "make total sense". In many European countries you get visited by the police if you post the wrong kind of memes. You get arrested if you wave a Palestinian flag. Insulting a politician or police officer has been criminalized. These things all have a chilling effect on free expression. The US has much stronger free speech protections than Europe. (At least for now.)

emsy 2y ago

It’s true for Germany. There recently was a case of a podcaster whose acquaintances were tapped and was apprehended while walking with his 1yo for posting memes. An AfD politician was fined 6000€ for posting crime statistics. A man had his house searched for sharing a meme of calling a politician something along the lines of „idiot“. There’s also the 60 minutes interview where prosecutors brag about confiscating devices for posting memes. From what I hear from acquaintances and social media, the UK is even worse.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dudefeliciano 2y ago
ok but I was asking for some reliable sources, not a paragraph of anecdotes. I could go google each one myself, but I don't even want to imagine in what kind of hellhole websites I will end up in if I do that.
- fwn 2y ago
  I'm not the parent, but one reference they made but didn't link was this 60 Minutes clip "Policing the internet in Germany, where hate speech, insults are a crime". It was a bit of a meme in Germany. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc Still, the author of the original article has some pretty polarising and crude views, and I think it's valuable to keep that context in mind. The key is not to be lazy and just dismiss everything that doesn't come from the smoothest PR media personality. For me, it felt like reading a frustrated author arguing against over-reliance on the service sector as an economy, given the dependencies it creates. There is certainly nationalism, realism/geopolitical views and a somewhat raw criticism of the current monetary system in the mix. The author sprinkles a lot of cultural references all over it and concludes with a tongue-in-cheek hint at an accelerationist strategy. .. based on that random blogpost I probably still wouldn't buy any gold just yet.
- wahnfrieden 2y ago
  German police raid homes of activists for making anti-Israel social media posts https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-police-raid-properties-pro-palestinian-group-banned-2024-05-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-police-raid-prop... (Trump also just tweeted that activists will be imprisoned)

acatton 2y ago

There are multiple cases in Germany (where I live). I cannot find them all, but "Pimmelgate" is a famous one where one guy on twitter (that's what it was called at the time) told a local politician "Du bist ein Pimmel" (in English: "You're a dick") and the next day the police showed up at his apartment and searched it. The issue is the harassment. Most of these cases are baseless and get dropped once presented to the public prosecutor. But it puts unwarranted stress on people who just opened their mouth, regardless if I disagree with what they had said. If these cases were moved forward, they could end up in front of the European Court of Human Rights, where Germany and Austria are among the worst offenders[1] when it comes to the article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights[2], which grantees free speech in the EU. Usually these individual cases are used by neo-conservatives to criticize Europe and describe it as (their words) "a socialist hellhole." While this argument (= "there is no free speech in Europe") might be based on some truth, and while I agree that the free speech situation in most of Europe could be improved, I think it is grossly exaggerated. [1] https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/#{%22languageisocode%22:[%22ENG%22],%22respondent%22:[%22DEU%22],%22documentcollectionid2%22:[%22GRANDCHAMBER%22,%22CHAMBER%22]} https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/#{%22languageisocode%22:[%22ENG%2... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights#Article_10_%E2%80%93_expression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_R...

dudefeliciano 2y ago
My question was specifically about being jailed for expressing their opinion? Is this something that happens all the time in Germany (from what you wrote I would say no. It's a hassle but at most you get a fine that you can appeal, right?). Americans seem to think that people post a meme and end up in an american style max-security federal prison or something, while actually the offender gets a minor slap on the wrist.
- OKRainbowKid 2y ago
  It doesn't happen, unless your opinion is something very specific like holocaust denial and you double down on it multiple times. People do not get jailed for posting memes.
- 2y ago

sdsd 2y ago

I suppose this doesn't remotely qualify as "memes", but Mr. Bond went to prison for ten years in Germany for making racist rap songs.

ShellfishMeme 2y ago
It was Austria, and I think it's pretty telling that when free speech limitations come up in these kind of threads, it's always neo-Nazi stuff.
- dudefeliciano 2y ago
  seriously why do people get so mad that a rapper can't release such classics like "Mein Kampf mixtapes" or "A Nazi goes to Afrika" in the country that birthed the guy who destroyed the world. (I know why they get mad)

FergusArgyll 2y ago

"A man has been jailed today after pleading guilty to posting grossly offensive messages on social media." - The Crown Prosecution Service https://www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/man-jailed-offensive-social-media-posts-wake-recent-disorder https://www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/man-jailed-offensive-...

gruez 2y ago
This hinges entirely on what the captions were. What did they say? Even US free speech laws doesn't protect certain forms of speech (eg. "imminent lawless action"), so whether it's a meme or not holds little relevance.
jsiepkes 2y ago
This wasn't someone posting just a meme online or anything. The guy was posting racist shit during civil unrest [1]. Literally throwing oil on a fire. Yeah, you are going to get prosecuted for that. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gdww5lx2vo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gdww5lx2vo
- FergusArgyll 2y ago
  "In those wretched Countries where a Man cannot call his Tongue his own, he can scarce call any Thing else his own. Whoever would overthrow the Liberty of a Nation, must begin by subduing the Freeness of Speech; a Thing terrible to Publick Traytors." - Benjamin Franklin This is why we fought a war to be separate from your "wretched" country. You're justifying jail time for racist speech!
  - dudefeliciano 2y ago
    > he can scarce call any Thing else his own Ironic coming from a future slave owner. He did become an abolitionist, after travelling to France and England and being exposed to some, for Americans, pretty radical ideas.
  - jsiepkes 2y ago
    > You're justifying jail time for racist speech! For inciting further civil unrest during civil unrest. Kinda weird to just cherry pick some things from my post.

vincnetas 2y ago

meme is a very vague term. it could have been death threat meme. its like saying "he went to jail for speaking". well its possible and might be totally justified. depends on what was said. for example death treats, bomb threats, scamming people. its all fits under "he was speaking"

econ 2y ago

This should do it https://youtu.be/XkT0jIxwJOY?si=2XCc84FGyTFdPyHv https://youtu.be/XkT0jIxwJOY?si=2XCc84FGyTFdPyHv