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I can see both viewpoints, though. I agree that the current situation is not normal and that there's a danger in normalising it - plus I have some private thou

I can see both viewpoints, though. I agree that the current situation is not normal and that there's a danger in normalising it - plus I have some private thoughts about how the tech scene is partially complicit in what's currently happening. I'm also not sure if anyone can afford to be neutral forever (something that HN usually tries to do), simply because the stakes are so high that most participants from both sides won't accept neutrality anymore. But even outrageous news wear off - it's human nature. I'm sure it happened during WWII, too. And there's a certain point at which, even if you do care, you don't want to have to engage with it all the time. So limiting the amount of discussion about political matters becomes a matter of mental health.

AlecSchueler 2y ago
I can sympathise with that, I recently deleted my Instagram account because of the increase in Nazi imagery having a negative impact on my mental health. But with respect I would suggest that people here can do the same, choose not to click on things they don't want to discuss or ease of visiting the site a little during this time. Or if that's not possible then it comes back to the question I was asking: Where can we discuss these things? Is there appetite for a new HN fork where we don't have to be neutral or considerate in the face of facism? Because right now I don't know where else to go. If this was a non-political post about crypto then I wie immediately come here for discussion because I know I can trust my peers here to have a deep and nuances understanding of the technologies involved. But now I come here and I see it is flagged and hear we can't have it visible because it's "too much." That's ok, but where can we do it? It feels very necessary for my own mental health that these discussions have a space, can you see that side too? And I feel Furthermore a responsibility to the people whose mental health and everything else is being affected directly by these off the wall decisions.
- Tainnor 2y ago
  > It feels very necessary for my own mental health that these discussions have a space, can you see that side too? And I feel Furthermore a responsibility to the people whose mental health and everything else is being affected directly by these off the wall decisions. I feel that there is definite emotional need for seeing that at least some of your peers share enough of your values to have a similar reaction to you - although that can cut both ways. For example, during COVID, many of the discussions were IMHO cesspools of misinformation with incredibly angry takes. In that situation I preferred having fewer of these threads on the main page. Intellectually, I'm not so sure. I mean, at some point you either agree that all of this is crazy or you don't. You can certainly discuss immigration, government spending, even some hot button issues like DEI with some amount of civility, but when you're faced with what looks to be a descent into authoritarianism, is there really anything left to discuss? I'm not sure.
  - AlecSchueler 2y ago
    Ways to fight back surely? And the "what looks like" is important because how do I know without discussion amongst peers? It's fair what you're saying about Covid but HN is not where I come to hear the opinions of medical experts. But this crypto stuff, DOGE having physical access to servers etc.? The question again is where do we discuss it if not here? If it wasn't connected to Trump this would be the obvious place to come.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    >For example, during COVID, many of the discussions were IMHO cesspools of misinformation with incredibly angry takes. Health, law, relationships. Those are pretty much my main exceptions to stuff I can justify culling misinformation from. It's very specific, personal (or region-based', and bad advice can cost lives. No physical life is worth upholding some free speech on the internet. This meanwhile is simply a mix of news and opinion. It's not harming anyone and HN never really gets "full on the front page". The algorithm does tailor to variety and the moderation strives to make sure duplicate stories are merged. >but when you're faced with what looks to be a descent into authoritarianism, is there really anything left to discuss? I'm not sure. Yes. It's more important to discuss than ever. You need to talk about organizing and rebelling. About how to use the system against itself. How to find allies. Keeping people ignorant and isolated is how you get hat regime to begin with. I wouldn't have thought myself that calling my reps works without the right forums. I wouldn't know when and where protests in my area are. HN wants to say it's a community, but times like this reminds me we're more of some amourphous Meetup, mostly a revolving door of people who come in anf out with this pressure to talk about specific topics. But never make any deep connections. We need community more than ever.
    - Tainnor 2y ago
      The thing is that in these threads I see mostly (a) justified but predictable indignation, and (b) obvious propaganda accounts / trolls with bad takes that more reasonable people probably unhelpfully try to engage with (the propaganda comments eventually get downvoted or flagged but you'll still see them especially for new submissions). I agree that actually discussing what can be done would be more productive.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
I just don't like that a small minority of readers can flag something and make a decision for an entire community. There's all kinds of stories don't like on HN. But I've never flagged any submission. It's up to the community to determine what they want to interact with (and the majority of stories rarely get more than 2 up votes. So they know how to 9fnofe stories).

AlecSchueler 2y ago

I can sympathise with that, I recently deleted my Instagram account because of the increase in Nazi imagery having a negative impact on my mental health. But with respect I would suggest that people here can do the same, choose not to click on things they don't want to discuss or ease of visiting the site a little during this time. Or if that's not possible then it comes back to the question I was asking: Where can we discuss these things? Is there appetite for a new HN fork where we don't have to be neutral or considerate in the face of facism? Because right now I don't know where else to go. If this was a non-political post about crypto then I wie immediately come here for discussion because I know I can trust my peers here to have a deep and nuances understanding of the technologies involved. But now I come here and I see it is flagged and hear we can't have it visible because it's "too much." That's ok, but where can we do it? It feels very necessary for my own mental health that these discussions have a space, can you see that side too? And I feel Furthermore a responsibility to the people whose mental health and everything else is being affected directly by these off the wall decisions.

Tainnor 2y ago
> It feels very necessary for my own mental health that these discussions have a space, can you see that side too? And I feel Furthermore a responsibility to the people whose mental health and everything else is being affected directly by these off the wall decisions. I feel that there is definite emotional need for seeing that at least some of your peers share enough of your values to have a similar reaction to you - although that can cut both ways. For example, during COVID, many of the discussions were IMHO cesspools of misinformation with incredibly angry takes. In that situation I preferred having fewer of these threads on the main page. Intellectually, I'm not so sure. I mean, at some point you either agree that all of this is crazy or you don't. You can certainly discuss immigration, government spending, even some hot button issues like DEI with some amount of civility, but when you're faced with what looks to be a descent into authoritarianism, is there really anything left to discuss? I'm not sure.
- AlecSchueler 2y ago
  Ways to fight back surely? And the "what looks like" is important because how do I know without discussion amongst peers? It's fair what you're saying about Covid but HN is not where I come to hear the opinions of medical experts. But this crypto stuff, DOGE having physical access to servers etc.? The question again is where do we discuss it if not here? If it wasn't connected to Trump this would be the obvious place to come.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  >For example, during COVID, many of the discussions were IMHO cesspools of misinformation with incredibly angry takes. Health, law, relationships. Those are pretty much my main exceptions to stuff I can justify culling misinformation from. It's very specific, personal (or region-based', and bad advice can cost lives. No physical life is worth upholding some free speech on the internet. This meanwhile is simply a mix of news and opinion. It's not harming anyone and HN never really gets "full on the front page". The algorithm does tailor to variety and the moderation strives to make sure duplicate stories are merged. >but when you're faced with what looks to be a descent into authoritarianism, is there really anything left to discuss? I'm not sure. Yes. It's more important to discuss than ever. You need to talk about organizing and rebelling. About how to use the system against itself. How to find allies. Keeping people ignorant and isolated is how you get hat regime to begin with. I wouldn't have thought myself that calling my reps works without the right forums. I wouldn't know when and where protests in my area are. HN wants to say it's a community, but times like this reminds me we're more of some amourphous Meetup, mostly a revolving door of people who come in anf out with this pressure to talk about specific topics. But never make any deep connections. We need community more than ever.
  - Tainnor 2y ago
    The thing is that in these threads I see mostly (a) justified but predictable indignation, and (b) obvious propaganda accounts / trolls with bad takes that more reasonable people probably unhelpfully try to engage with (the propaganda comments eventually get downvoted or flagged but you'll still see them especially for new submissions). I agree that actually discussing what can be done would be more productive.

johnnyanmac 2y ago

I just don't like that a small minority of readers can flag something and make a decision for an entire community. There's all kinds of stories don't like on HN. But I've never flagged any submission. It's up to the community to determine what they want to interact with (and the majority of stories rarely get more than 2 up votes. So they know how to 9fnofe stories).