4 ms·

The US, Canada and Australia were all formed at times where the origin countries where not liberal democracies, so where did that "democratic seed" come from, a

The US, Canada and Australia were all formed at times where the origin countries where not liberal democracies, so where did that "democratic seed" come from, and why should people fleeing totalitarian regimes not have it? This argument really does not make sense, and lest we forget those "enlightened democratic western cultures" created some pretty gruesome dictatorships in the intermittent years.

rayiner 2y ago
The modern Bangladesh constitution, created in the 1970s, has concepts like “due process.” That phrase comes from a 1354 English law implementing the Magna Carta: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt5-5-2/ALDE_00013722/ https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt5-5-2/ALD.... If you study British history, you’ll see that foundation for what became America, Canada, and Australia has being built for 900 years, even when British society was ruled by a king. Turning to Western europe more generally, there are cultural traits arising from Christianity and the historical development of the Catholic Church: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/09/joseph-henrich-explores-weird-societies https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/09/joseph-henric.... Protestantism also played a significant role. Puritanism in New England heavily influenced what became American political culture: https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/37/our-puritan-heritage/ https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/37/our-puritan-heritag...
- deserts 2y ago
  This isn't a good argument as the importance of "due process" in British and American systems differs and diverges significantly both currently and historically. Actually if you study British history you'll find that what is most striking is that the United States is a departure from rather than a continuation of British legal or governance norms.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    I’ve extensively studied British history and British legal history specifically. What’s striking is that America, for all the influences on it, has displayed such remarkable continuity with British tradition. Obviously there’s differences in application of those concepts after hundreds of years. But the point is that when Bangladesh drafted a modern constitution, it reached for concepts dating back to 13th century England. Democracy as we understand it was a long time in the making. They didn’t reach back to the Mughals or the Nawabs of Bengal. This was no indigenous foundation for law-based democratic society. And experience has proven that you can’t transmit such a system from one society to another with ideas or words on paper. It’s the organic result of mother teaching child over generations. Remember, the american revolutionaries were fighting to vindicate what they saw as the ancient rights of Englishmen, unlike say the french revolutionaries who sought to institute a new regime.
    - deserts 2y ago
      You haven't studied well enough as due process being largely secondary to both royal prerogative and parliamentary sovereignty, with there being (even to this day) a scepticism and sometimes outright hostility to the role and scope of the judiciary, is something you missed.

rayiner 2y ago

The modern Bangladesh constitution, created in the 1970s, has concepts like “due process.” That phrase comes from a 1354 English law implementing the Magna Carta: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt5-5-2/ALDE_00013722/ https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt5-5-2/ALD.... If you study British history, you’ll see that foundation for what became America, Canada, and Australia has being built for 900 years, even when British society was ruled by a king. Turning to Western europe more generally, there are cultural traits arising from Christianity and the historical development of the Catholic Church: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/09/joseph-henrich-explores-weird-societies https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/09/joseph-henric.... Protestantism also played a significant role. Puritanism in New England heavily influenced what became American political culture: https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/37/our-puritan-heritage/ https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/37/our-puritan-heritag...

deserts 2y ago
This isn't a good argument as the importance of "due process" in British and American systems differs and diverges significantly both currently and historically. Actually if you study British history you'll find that what is most striking is that the United States is a departure from rather than a continuation of British legal or governance norms.
- rayiner 2y ago
  I’ve extensively studied British history and British legal history specifically. What’s striking is that America, for all the influences on it, has displayed such remarkable continuity with British tradition. Obviously there’s differences in application of those concepts after hundreds of years. But the point is that when Bangladesh drafted a modern constitution, it reached for concepts dating back to 13th century England. Democracy as we understand it was a long time in the making. They didn’t reach back to the Mughals or the Nawabs of Bengal. This was no indigenous foundation for law-based democratic society. And experience has proven that you can’t transmit such a system from one society to another with ideas or words on paper. It’s the organic result of mother teaching child over generations. Remember, the american revolutionaries were fighting to vindicate what they saw as the ancient rights of Englishmen, unlike say the french revolutionaries who sought to institute a new regime.
  - deserts 2y ago
    You haven't studied well enough as due process being largely secondary to both royal prerogative and parliamentary sovereignty, with there being (even to this day) a scepticism and sometimes outright hostility to the role and scope of the judiciary, is something you missed.