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The author is advocating for simpler single-purpose products I guess. The microwave example just doesn't make sense when what you have isn't a single "just pus

The author is advocating for simpler single-purpose products I guess. The microwave example just doesn't make sense when what you have isn't a single "just push the power button" machine, but a combined microwave/oven for instance. You'll want clear mode management, temperature management when defrosting meat, pre-heating and convection when cooking a whole chicken etc. Anecdotally, a lot of people don't really understand/care about bicycle gears, and stick it to the heaviest and call it a day (on city bikes it's not that heavy, they can dance when it's tougher, and just get off and push the bike when it's really hard). We've seen the same cycle for cars, where people only caring about going from A to B will enjoy automatic transmissions better. All in all, I agree single purpose products are great when you can afford one and it does the job. Paradoxically it also helps expand the use cases as the user comes to better understand how it works and how it can be "abused".

pxndx 2y ago
No, the author is advocating for the simple two dial (power and time) microwaves, which give you all the control at the cost of having to understand how it works. The author is saying that in the effort to "simplify" stuff, microwaves now add a potato button and a chicken button, but then you want to cook an eggplant and don't know how.
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  I think we're in agreement. To me the two dial microwave is the single purpose tool. As a user I just happen to have very little kitchen space, so I ended up with a microwave/oven combination by necessity, and as it does exponentially a lot more than the two dial microwave, it also requires more complex modes and buttons and dials and I'm fine with it, as that's exactly why I paid for it. The "chicken" mode isn't some dumb time/power setting, as mine does the pre-heating, accepts additional watering, and adjusts the temperature curve so it's crisp at the end of the cycle. Advocating for simple tools is fine IMHO, as long as we understand not everything needs to be overly simple. PS: perhaps the part I'm missing is that while researching before buying my microwave/oven, I never saw a "dumb" machine that had useless buttons that could be exchanged for just a time/power setting. Each special modes usually have specific tweaks, and going through the manual it was made abundantly clear.
  - jajko 2y ago
    Man, most folks will never go through oven manual. Usually new oven means new kitchen, and more focus is ie on induction hob, fridge, dishwasher etvc. I am one of those that just wants simple clear stuff like a lot of people here mention. Whats more important is the consistency between various products - if I am used to a recipe that requires 15 mins at this setting and this temperature, let it be consistent across all products. Which is never the case, more sophisticated cooks struggle in new environment. But yes the specific use case of mixed products you mention this won't be enough. I'd say thats fringe part of the market and folks knowing they are getting something special take time to understand the tool.
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      Yes, it comes down to what people care about, and I'm sympathetic to not wanting to care much for people who don't enjoy cooking. On consistency...I think it's just not possible. Even for super simple things like blasting something at 500W for 30 sec, we quickly realize that some microwaves ramp up faster than others, and at the same power they don't all diffuse the power evenly (flat floor microwaves are pretty different from the rotating plate ones for instance). Doing trial and error for any new model feels like a fact of life, and I assume pros are more severe regarding properly knowing how their tool actually behaves, same way we'd benchmark a new computer to get an idea of its actual performance profile with our exact installation.
    - neuralRiot 2y ago
      I’m an avid home cook and one of the most temperamental tools in any kitchen is the oven, with the ranges, microwaves and broilers you can quickly get a sense of their character but with the oven and specially for baking you need a long term relationship.
aredox 2y ago
>Anecdotally, a lot of people don't really understand/care about bicycle gears, and stick it to the heaviest and call it a day (on city bikes it's not that heavy, they can dance when it's tougher, and just get off and push the bike when it's really hard). We've seen the same cycle for cars, where people only caring about going from A to B will enjoy automatic transmissions better. ...Where do you live? This is completely foreign to most of Europe, where I havent seen anyone stuck to one gear (except hipsters on fixies, making a fashion statement), and almost everyone drive manual. How can it be possible that "lot of people" where you live aren't able to do those very basic things? To the point of being unable to bike correctly (ever tried to start a bike in the highest gear)?
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  > I havent seen anyone stuck to one gear (except hipsters on fixies, making a fashion statement) Fixed wheel cycles aren't just for hipsters - there's a fair few cyclists who enthuse about them for teaching cyclists to have a smoother pedalling style which can help with higher cadences. I've only ever used fixed wheels on unicycles (which to be fair could be described as making a fashion statement) as they don't lend themselves to having gears.

pxndx 2y ago

No, the author is advocating for the simple two dial (power and time) microwaves, which give you all the control at the cost of having to understand how it works. The author is saying that in the effort to "simplify" stuff, microwaves now add a potato button and a chicken button, but then you want to cook an eggplant and don't know how.

makeitdouble 2y ago
I think we're in agreement. To me the two dial microwave is the single purpose tool. As a user I just happen to have very little kitchen space, so I ended up with a microwave/oven combination by necessity, and as it does exponentially a lot more than the two dial microwave, it also requires more complex modes and buttons and dials and I'm fine with it, as that's exactly why I paid for it. The "chicken" mode isn't some dumb time/power setting, as mine does the pre-heating, accepts additional watering, and adjusts the temperature curve so it's crisp at the end of the cycle. Advocating for simple tools is fine IMHO, as long as we understand not everything needs to be overly simple. PS: perhaps the part I'm missing is that while researching before buying my microwave/oven, I never saw a "dumb" machine that had useless buttons that could be exchanged for just a time/power setting. Each special modes usually have specific tweaks, and going through the manual it was made abundantly clear.
- jajko 2y ago
  Man, most folks will never go through oven manual. Usually new oven means new kitchen, and more focus is ie on induction hob, fridge, dishwasher etvc. I am one of those that just wants simple clear stuff like a lot of people here mention. Whats more important is the consistency between various products - if I am used to a recipe that requires 15 mins at this setting and this temperature, let it be consistent across all products. Which is never the case, more sophisticated cooks struggle in new environment. But yes the specific use case of mixed products you mention this won't be enough. I'd say thats fringe part of the market and folks knowing they are getting something special take time to understand the tool.
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    Yes, it comes down to what people care about, and I'm sympathetic to not wanting to care much for people who don't enjoy cooking. On consistency...I think it's just not possible. Even for super simple things like blasting something at 500W for 30 sec, we quickly realize that some microwaves ramp up faster than others, and at the same power they don't all diffuse the power evenly (flat floor microwaves are pretty different from the rotating plate ones for instance). Doing trial and error for any new model feels like a fact of life, and I assume pros are more severe regarding properly knowing how their tool actually behaves, same way we'd benchmark a new computer to get an idea of its actual performance profile with our exact installation.
  - neuralRiot 2y ago
    I’m an avid home cook and one of the most temperamental tools in any kitchen is the oven, with the ranges, microwaves and broilers you can quickly get a sense of their character but with the oven and specially for baking you need a long term relationship.

aredox 2y ago

>Anecdotally, a lot of people don't really understand/care about bicycle gears, and stick it to the heaviest and call it a day (on city bikes it's not that heavy, they can dance when it's tougher, and just get off and push the bike when it's really hard). We've seen the same cycle for cars, where people only caring about going from A to B will enjoy automatic transmissions better. ...Where do you live? This is completely foreign to most of Europe, where I havent seen anyone stuck to one gear (except hipsters on fixies, making a fashion statement), and almost everyone drive manual. How can it be possible that "lot of people" where you live aren't able to do those very basic things? To the point of being unable to bike correctly (ever tried to start a bike in the highest gear)?

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
> I havent seen anyone stuck to one gear (except hipsters on fixies, making a fashion statement) Fixed wheel cycles aren't just for hipsters - there's a fair few cyclists who enthuse about them for teaching cyclists to have a smoother pedalling style which can help with higher cadences. I've only ever used fixed wheels on unicycles (which to be fair could be described as making a fashion statement) as they don't lend themselves to having gears.