3 ms·

> We estimate that the cost of the bill of materials and assembly of a galvanically isolated charging port is about $300 per kilowatt. So a single 300-kW port i

> We estimate that the cost of the bill of materials and assembly of a galvanically isolated charging port is about $300 per kilowatt. So a single 300-kW port in a public charging station includes about $90,000 of power electronics, of which about $54,000 is for the isolation link. I would love to see a concrete BOM for a sample build and mouser links to back this up. Seems ridiculously high, like paying some military/space grade premiums, or just using very niche parts without economies of scale driving the cost down.

marsokod 2y ago
> > So a single 300-kW port in a public charging station includes about $90,000 of power electronics, of which about $54,000 is for the isolation link. > I would love to see a concrete BOM for a sample build and mouser links to back this up. This kind of checks out with the price of 200kW and 400kW chargers from Alpitronics: https://www.connect-gp-joule.de/en/shop/dc-charging-stations/alpitronic/hyc400 https://www.connect-gp-joule.de/en/shop/dc-charging-stations... Between €67k and €102k (for some reasons VAT included in that price) for these units.
- progbits 2y ago
  That's the product. I'm not questioning the price of those, but the price of components vs markup Show me the IGBTs and inductors that cost 90k.
jillesvangurp 2y ago
These things also generate revenue. It's not a zero sum game. Fast charging pricing varies quite a lot but 50 cents per kwh is a nice round number to work with (and probably lowish). Some places charge more, some less. If an average charging session charges 30 kwh, that's 15$/session. To earn back 90K, you need 6000 charging sessions. At 17 sessions per day, you'd get there in about a year. You also have to deal with power and other overhead obviously. And chargers are more expensive than just that. A good charger should be generating 50-100K of revenue per year and do that for several years until it is replaced. The lifetime revenue should be at least a few hundred thousand $. Of course this whole article is based on the notion that its assertions about cost are correct. They probably are high balling a few numbers. All I'm reading is that US charging companies are paying a high price for their infrastructure and are apparently failing to benefit from economies of scale, learning effects, etc. High speed chargers are being deployed at scale across the globe. The US is technically behind on this front with relatively low EV adoption rates. So, I would expect US companies to be somewhat behind on the cost front as well. Bottom line: done right, unsubsidized charging infrastructure should be doable and profitable. Subsidies are of course involved in a lot of places. But it's not like fossil fuels are un-subsidized. Regardless of what you think of that, there's a good reason for that: governments are eager to sponsor energy infrastructure because it's an economic multiplier. Economic growth is strongly connected to energy availability and usage. Lucrative economic activity tends to be very energy intensive. The US has invested many trillions in it's oil and gas infrastructure over the decades. And that's just direct investments. All those expensive wars in the middle east to secure access to oil are also part of this. And it has had a decent return on investment on those investments. It's nowhere near matching that for the clean replacement for any of that stuff. Other countries are outspending the US so they can provide clean, cheap energy to their economies. The US should be spending more and spending smarter or it risks pricing itself out of the market. China in particular has built up quite a lead here. I don't think the Chinese are wasting their money.

marsokod 2y ago

> > So a single 300-kW port in a public charging station includes about $90,000 of power electronics, of which about $54,000 is for the isolation link. > I would love to see a concrete BOM for a sample build and mouser links to back this up. This kind of checks out with the price of 200kW and 400kW chargers from Alpitronics: https://www.connect-gp-joule.de/en/shop/dc-charging-stations/alpitronic/hyc400 https://www.connect-gp-joule.de/en/shop/dc-charging-stations... Between €67k and €102k (for some reasons VAT included in that price) for these units.

progbits 2y ago
That's the product. I'm not questioning the price of those, but the price of components vs markup Show me the IGBTs and inductors that cost 90k.

jillesvangurp 2y ago

These things also generate revenue. It's not a zero sum game. Fast charging pricing varies quite a lot but 50 cents per kwh is a nice round number to work with (and probably lowish). Some places charge more, some less. If an average charging session charges 30 kwh, that's 15$/session. To earn back 90K, you need 6000 charging sessions. At 17 sessions per day, you'd get there in about a year. You also have to deal with power and other overhead obviously. And chargers are more expensive than just that. A good charger should be generating 50-100K of revenue per year and do that for several years until it is replaced. The lifetime revenue should be at least a few hundred thousand $. Of course this whole article is based on the notion that its assertions about cost are correct. They probably are high balling a few numbers. All I'm reading is that US charging companies are paying a high price for their infrastructure and are apparently failing to benefit from economies of scale, learning effects, etc. High speed chargers are being deployed at scale across the globe. The US is technically behind on this front with relatively low EV adoption rates. So, I would expect US companies to be somewhat behind on the cost front as well. Bottom line: done right, unsubsidized charging infrastructure should be doable and profitable. Subsidies are of course involved in a lot of places. But it's not like fossil fuels are un-subsidized. Regardless of what you think of that, there's a good reason for that: governments are eager to sponsor energy infrastructure because it's an economic multiplier. Economic growth is strongly connected to energy availability and usage. Lucrative economic activity tends to be very energy intensive. The US has invested many trillions in it's oil and gas infrastructure over the decades. And that's just direct investments. All those expensive wars in the middle east to secure access to oil are also part of this. And it has had a decent return on investment on those investments. It's nowhere near matching that for the clean replacement for any of that stuff. Other countries are outspending the US so they can provide clean, cheap energy to their economies. The US should be spending more and spending smarter or it risks pricing itself out of the market. China in particular has built up quite a lead here. I don't think the Chinese are wasting their money.