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More like asking people to focus on the economic considerations because the political discussion is boring and repetitive, I think.

lazide 2y ago
Is invading Greenland really all that boring?
- pfannkuchen 2y ago
  Have people not noticed that Trump seems to habitually make hyperbolic and ridiculous sounding statements? Like it’s not doing him any favors, I tend to feel it’s some kind of personality defect. Though it did get him a lot of attention in the past, which substantially led to him becoming president. Either he can’t turn it off, or the decade plus of increasingly internet centric media exposure among the general population just selected for a guy who had obvious populist but not too radical views and also makes ridiculous statements to get attention. Greenland will not be taken by force. The reminder of a possibility of force may be used as leverage in the negotiation. The messaging is kind of whacky, but it would make sense to broadcast the threat widely to achieve credibility. Like “he’s so crazy he might just pull the trigger”.
  - lazide 2y ago
    I have a lot of experience with this kind of person. I personally will bet real money that the US has troops in Greenland within a year, and is claiming it as US territory. In my experience, the ‘personality defect’ you are thinking of is what many folks would call ‘malignant narcissistic personality disorder’. He only wants Greenland because someone once told him he couldn’t have it, and it gets him attention every time he brings it up. It wouldn’t surprise me if he has no actual idea what Greenland actually is like, and has never visited it. He might even be confused between Iceland and Greenland, if you asked him to point to Greenland on an unlabeled map. Plenty of other people though would benefit from the strife created by him actually taking it, or from him being happy with them by actually getting it for him, so I expect there are active plans in motion right now to invade Greenland. He’s telling everyone what he wants to do, no one is delivering real consequences to stop him, and he is in charge. Listen to what he’s saying. Refusing to take him ‘seriously’ and actually act against him, is exactly what normalizes his actions when he later does the thing that seemed crazy a month or a year ago. Look at what he was saying that seemed crazy and hyperbolic a year or two ago. Look at what he is doing now, and no one is stopping him.
    - pfannkuchen 2y ago
      Yes, I agree that the personality defect is a form of narcissism. I think, though, that the narcissism mechanism acts a bit differently than you say. I think he sees himself as a great man, a man who can see further than others, a man who gets things done and above all a man who makes deals. I’m not saying his is any those things, he’s not, just that this is how he narcissistically sees himself. Interestingly, I think this disordered thinking is probably what makes him not give any shits about what other people think. Like, from his perspective he’s going to do a thing that will be unpopular because people are myopic, but eventually his results will be too obvious to ignore. Picture a narcissistic software engineer, they do the same thing. He does this very clumsily, because he is not actually a great man in the way he sees himself, and he has never made any attempt to work on his personality shortcomings, because narcissism. To be absolutely clear, this is what I think is occurring in his mind, I am not personally saying that he is a great man etc. His self perception as that is just what drives how he acts. Anyway, he does want Greenland. Taking Greenland would make him a major historical figure, from the perspective of a man (himself) who developed his sense of historical significance from literal school history books, not from any deep thinking. Physics phds want to be the guy in the physics textbook. He wants to be the guy in the history textbook. Annexing Greenland would give him that. However, he will not use physical force to achieve that. I would put big money on that prediction. It doesn’t fit with his m/o. He is bluffing about using physical force, in order to strong arm Denmark into a purchase deal. Because, you know, he sees himself as a master deal maker. Doing a deal on Greenland would be a massive win for that aspect of his persona, in terms of that self belief being supported in the narcissistic sense. Using physical force on Greenland would be literally insane, and if you listen to the man talk for a long enough time, as I have, he has shown signs of being many, many things, but being literally insane is not one of them. Nothing he has done so far has surprised me (with the exception of the Gulf of America, he did catch me off guard with that one). His supporters don’t really care about Greenland. I think from their perspective, Trump does some pretty goofy stuff, but if he’s the guy who will do something about 1) the Mexicans and 2) the trade policies that created the rust belt, then he’s their guy.
      - Tainnor 2y ago
        > and if you listen to the man talk for a long enough time, as I have, he has shown signs of being many, many things, but being literally insane is not one of them I guess the disconnect comes from the fact that for many people including myself, the perception has always been of the exact opposite.
  - lawn 2y ago
    Saying crazy things like implementing general tariffs? Or wanting to create "camps" to hold immigrants, and then sending them to Guantanamo? Things like threatening retaliations against perceived enemies? Withdrawing support from Ukraine and groveling to Putin? I'm pretty tired of people dismissing his crazy outbursts as something he just says because he's not just all talk, he (too) often does the crazy things.
    - pfannkuchen 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - bodiekane 2y ago
        I like that you did a full 180 between your two comments in this thread. First it was "Trump seems to habitually make hyperbolic and ridiculous sounding statements" to pretend it's all talk and not representative of actual policy. And then a complete switch to supporting all of the policies which started as "hyperbolic and ridiculous sounding statements" on tariffs, immigration and Russian imperialism. Also, it seems your worldview is straight out of a fairy tale from Fox News and/or Russian propaganda. Maybe reading some more diverse and less biased news sources would help you (AP News, BBC, Bloomberg, WSJ, Al Jazeera, Reuters, etc)
        _DeadFred_ 2y ago
        Average "I'm middle of the road with regard to politics" American.
        pfannkuchen 2y ago
        It’s not a full 180, you are just viewing a flattened lower dimensional version of what I am saying (I can speculate on the reasons). Hyperbolic and ridiculous statements include: annexing Greenland by force, annexing Canada at all, permanent significantly higher tariffs on Canada and Mexico Actual goals: maybe annexing Greenland through pressure tactics, making Canada stop expecting special treatment (the whole annexation thing is just “if you want special treatment, you’re welcome to become a state, otherwise gtfo”), temporary tariffs as a pressure tactic on allies, permanent protectionist tariffs against China and places that launder Chinese goods, America stops interfering in extended family disputes internationally. For the record I think Trump as a person is a clown and I wish we had serious people as politicians, but it is annoying to see everyone being hysterical all the time over the guy. I am calling your worldview fairy tale because it moralizes political and international matters. Russia is not evil. America is not good. America is not evil. Russia is not good. These are massive oversimplifications, and it is worryingly reminiscent of war propaganda from old newspapers.

lazide 2y ago

Is invading Greenland really all that boring?

pfannkuchen 2y ago
Have people not noticed that Trump seems to habitually make hyperbolic and ridiculous sounding statements? Like it’s not doing him any favors, I tend to feel it’s some kind of personality defect. Though it did get him a lot of attention in the past, which substantially led to him becoming president. Either he can’t turn it off, or the decade plus of increasingly internet centric media exposure among the general population just selected for a guy who had obvious populist but not too radical views and also makes ridiculous statements to get attention. Greenland will not be taken by force. The reminder of a possibility of force may be used as leverage in the negotiation. The messaging is kind of whacky, but it would make sense to broadcast the threat widely to achieve credibility. Like “he’s so crazy he might just pull the trigger”.
- lazide 2y ago
  I have a lot of experience with this kind of person. I personally will bet real money that the US has troops in Greenland within a year, and is claiming it as US territory. In my experience, the ‘personality defect’ you are thinking of is what many folks would call ‘malignant narcissistic personality disorder’. He only wants Greenland because someone once told him he couldn’t have it, and it gets him attention every time he brings it up. It wouldn’t surprise me if he has no actual idea what Greenland actually is like, and has never visited it. He might even be confused between Iceland and Greenland, if you asked him to point to Greenland on an unlabeled map. Plenty of other people though would benefit from the strife created by him actually taking it, or from him being happy with them by actually getting it for him, so I expect there are active plans in motion right now to invade Greenland. He’s telling everyone what he wants to do, no one is delivering real consequences to stop him, and he is in charge. Listen to what he’s saying. Refusing to take him ‘seriously’ and actually act against him, is exactly what normalizes his actions when he later does the thing that seemed crazy a month or a year ago. Look at what he was saying that seemed crazy and hyperbolic a year or two ago. Look at what he is doing now, and no one is stopping him.
  - pfannkuchen 2y ago
    Yes, I agree that the personality defect is a form of narcissism. I think, though, that the narcissism mechanism acts a bit differently than you say. I think he sees himself as a great man, a man who can see further than others, a man who gets things done and above all a man who makes deals. I’m not saying his is any those things, he’s not, just that this is how he narcissistically sees himself. Interestingly, I think this disordered thinking is probably what makes him not give any shits about what other people think. Like, from his perspective he’s going to do a thing that will be unpopular because people are myopic, but eventually his results will be too obvious to ignore. Picture a narcissistic software engineer, they do the same thing. He does this very clumsily, because he is not actually a great man in the way he sees himself, and he has never made any attempt to work on his personality shortcomings, because narcissism. To be absolutely clear, this is what I think is occurring in his mind, I am not personally saying that he is a great man etc. His self perception as that is just what drives how he acts. Anyway, he does want Greenland. Taking Greenland would make him a major historical figure, from the perspective of a man (himself) who developed his sense of historical significance from literal school history books, not from any deep thinking. Physics phds want to be the guy in the physics textbook. He wants to be the guy in the history textbook. Annexing Greenland would give him that. However, he will not use physical force to achieve that. I would put big money on that prediction. It doesn’t fit with his m/o. He is bluffing about using physical force, in order to strong arm Denmark into a purchase deal. Because, you know, he sees himself as a master deal maker. Doing a deal on Greenland would be a massive win for that aspect of his persona, in terms of that self belief being supported in the narcissistic sense. Using physical force on Greenland would be literally insane, and if you listen to the man talk for a long enough time, as I have, he has shown signs of being many, many things, but being literally insane is not one of them. Nothing he has done so far has surprised me (with the exception of the Gulf of America, he did catch me off guard with that one). His supporters don’t really care about Greenland. I think from their perspective, Trump does some pretty goofy stuff, but if he’s the guy who will do something about 1) the Mexicans and 2) the trade policies that created the rust belt, then he’s their guy.
    - Tainnor 2y ago
      > and if you listen to the man talk for a long enough time, as I have, he has shown signs of being many, many things, but being literally insane is not one of them I guess the disconnect comes from the fact that for many people including myself, the perception has always been of the exact opposite.
- lawn 2y ago
  Saying crazy things like implementing general tariffs? Or wanting to create "camps" to hold immigrants, and then sending them to Guantanamo? Things like threatening retaliations against perceived enemies? Withdrawing support from Ukraine and groveling to Putin? I'm pretty tired of people dismissing his crazy outbursts as something he just says because he's not just all talk, he (too) often does the crazy things.
  - pfannkuchen 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - bodiekane 2y ago
      I like that you did a full 180 between your two comments in this thread. First it was "Trump seems to habitually make hyperbolic and ridiculous sounding statements" to pretend it's all talk and not representative of actual policy. And then a complete switch to supporting all of the policies which started as "hyperbolic and ridiculous sounding statements" on tariffs, immigration and Russian imperialism. Also, it seems your worldview is straight out of a fairy tale from Fox News and/or Russian propaganda. Maybe reading some more diverse and less biased news sources would help you (AP News, BBC, Bloomberg, WSJ, Al Jazeera, Reuters, etc)
      - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
        Average "I'm middle of the road with regard to politics" American.
      - pfannkuchen 2y ago
        It’s not a full 180, you are just viewing a flattened lower dimensional version of what I am saying (I can speculate on the reasons). Hyperbolic and ridiculous statements include: annexing Greenland by force, annexing Canada at all, permanent significantly higher tariffs on Canada and Mexico Actual goals: maybe annexing Greenland through pressure tactics, making Canada stop expecting special treatment (the whole annexation thing is just “if you want special treatment, you’re welcome to become a state, otherwise gtfo”), temporary tariffs as a pressure tactic on allies, permanent protectionist tariffs against China and places that launder Chinese goods, America stops interfering in extended family disputes internationally. For the record I think Trump as a person is a clown and I wish we had serious people as politicians, but it is annoying to see everyone being hysterical all the time over the guy. I am calling your worldview fairy tale because it moralizes political and international matters. Russia is not evil. America is not good. America is not evil. Russia is not good. These are massive oversimplifications, and it is worryingly reminiscent of war propaganda from old newspapers.