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This has been done before, and America comes out consistently on top. Even the median purchasing power parity (PPP) in the US is frequently ranked highest in th

This has been done before, and America comes out consistently on top. Even the median purchasing power parity (PPP) in the US is frequently ranked highest in the world. The majority of American households in the poorest US states are doing better than the majority of Europeans. This gets amplified if you're a highly sought after professional. Top senior engineers are getting paid $500k-$1M in the US. These are figures you'll never find in Europe or Asia, not even close. Put on top the rising costs of living, and 45% top tax brackets (France, UK, Germany, Spain), the US is incomparable.

lxgr 2y ago
Yes, if you're a professional in high demand, you can live a great life in the US. But how does the quality of life of everybody below the median look like? > This gets amplified if you're a highly sought after professional. Top senior engineers are getting paid $500k-$1M in the US. These are figures you'll never find in Europe or Asia, not even close. But what does that buy you really, in a high cost of living area? What if you ever want to do something else? What if demands for your profession change? How expensive is it to raise children? I have first hand experience of both the US and Europe, and while nominal salaries are (much) lower in the latter, subjective feelings of safety and quality of life seem much more comparable than the numbers might make you believe. That said, the US system of highly rewarding relatively few people at the top certainly motivates the masses like few others: Most people are bad at statistics and like playing the lottery.
- systemf_omega 2y ago
  > But how does the quality of life of everybody below the median look like? This discussion is about whether or not the US is a top brain drain destination. That means we're talking about exceptionally skilled or promising scientists/engineers/doctors at the top of their field. I'm not claiming life is great for everyone in America. I agree it isn't. > But what does that buy you really, in a high cost of living area? Look at the PPP in CA. It buys you a lot. People in HCOL cities that manage their finances well can become multi-millionaires in their early 30s. They will already be able to retire in 99% of the world, with enough savings to lead incredibly comfortable and luxurious lives. Meanwhile, people in Europe have on average lower assets and savings, low levels of home ownership, and lower likelihood to retire early at a comparable standard of living. Not to mention the pension crisis many of them are or will be facing in the near future.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    > This discussion is about whether or not the US is a top brain drain destination. And my point is that this is increasingly the case due to a combination of inertia and people’s bad EV calculations: > They will already be able to retire in 99% of the world, with enough savings to lead incredibly comfortable and luxurious lives. Just demographically, this will never be viable for a large fraction of the population, regardless of any economic concerns. This leaves truly exceptional talents, and those that incorrectly assume that that’s them. And this isn’t even considering how AI is potentially going to shake up knowledge work.
tokioyoyo 2y ago
Have you lived in Denmark, Japan, China, Netherlands and some other countries in the past 10-15 years? I really don’t think you weigh in people’s personal preferences and general quality of life into your equations. There is a very big reason why there’s no more large swaths of immigrants from European and some Asian countries flocking into the US. Yes there is some, but the times when it was objectively much better to live and grow in the states is in the past. Money is really not the only thing people care about, but it’s hard to understand for people for whom money is the only thing they care about.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  > The majority of American households in the poorest US states are doing better than the majority of Europeans. I'm so tired of this trope on HN. It comes up over and over again, but never considers non-economic quality of life issues. Take for example public schools: They are awful in poor US states, and good-to-excellent in most highly developed European nations.
  - tokioyoyo 2y ago
    I swear, none of these people have been to Louisiana, West Virginia, or any of the empty-looking cities that used to be lively 50 years ago. And I’m saying this as a person who isn’t American, but wanted to check it out myself before I made assumptions about the world.
    - selimthegrim 2y ago
      Living in New Orleans right now I concur.
    - throwawayq3423 2y ago
      Also GPD per capita is a terrible measure of standard of life considering 40k in Louisiana when you need to pay for most of health care education etc. isn't that much. The average life in these countries is undeniably better, even if poorer on paper.
- 2y ago
bigbacaloa 2y ago
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lxgr 2y ago

Yes, if you're a professional in high demand, you can live a great life in the US. But how does the quality of life of everybody below the median look like? > This gets amplified if you're a highly sought after professional. Top senior engineers are getting paid $500k-$1M in the US. These are figures you'll never find in Europe or Asia, not even close. But what does that buy you really, in a high cost of living area? What if you ever want to do something else? What if demands for your profession change? How expensive is it to raise children? I have first hand experience of both the US and Europe, and while nominal salaries are (much) lower in the latter, subjective feelings of safety and quality of life seem much more comparable than the numbers might make you believe. That said, the US system of highly rewarding relatively few people at the top certainly motivates the masses like few others: Most people are bad at statistics and like playing the lottery.

systemf_omega 2y ago
> But how does the quality of life of everybody below the median look like? This discussion is about whether or not the US is a top brain drain destination. That means we're talking about exceptionally skilled or promising scientists/engineers/doctors at the top of their field. I'm not claiming life is great for everyone in America. I agree it isn't. > But what does that buy you really, in a high cost of living area? Look at the PPP in CA. It buys you a lot. People in HCOL cities that manage their finances well can become multi-millionaires in their early 30s. They will already be able to retire in 99% of the world, with enough savings to lead incredibly comfortable and luxurious lives. Meanwhile, people in Europe have on average lower assets and savings, low levels of home ownership, and lower likelihood to retire early at a comparable standard of living. Not to mention the pension crisis many of them are or will be facing in the near future.
- lxgr 2y ago
  > This discussion is about whether or not the US is a top brain drain destination. And my point is that this is increasingly the case due to a combination of inertia and people’s bad EV calculations: > They will already be able to retire in 99% of the world, with enough savings to lead incredibly comfortable and luxurious lives. Just demographically, this will never be viable for a large fraction of the population, regardless of any economic concerns. This leaves truly exceptional talents, and those that incorrectly assume that that’s them. And this isn’t even considering how AI is potentially going to shake up knowledge work.

tokioyoyo 2y ago

Have you lived in Denmark, Japan, China, Netherlands and some other countries in the past 10-15 years? I really don’t think you weigh in people’s personal preferences and general quality of life into your equations. There is a very big reason why there’s no more large swaths of immigrants from European and some Asian countries flocking into the US. Yes there is some, but the times when it was objectively much better to live and grow in the states is in the past. Money is really not the only thing people care about, but it’s hard to understand for people for whom money is the only thing they care about.

throwaway2037 2y ago
> The majority of American households in the poorest US states are doing better than the majority of Europeans. I'm so tired of this trope on HN. It comes up over and over again, but never considers non-economic quality of life issues. Take for example public schools: They are awful in poor US states, and good-to-excellent in most highly developed European nations.
- tokioyoyo 2y ago
  I swear, none of these people have been to Louisiana, West Virginia, or any of the empty-looking cities that used to be lively 50 years ago. And I’m saying this as a person who isn’t American, but wanted to check it out myself before I made assumptions about the world.
  - selimthegrim 2y ago
    Living in New Orleans right now I concur.
  - throwawayq3423 2y ago
    Also GPD per capita is a terrible measure of standard of life considering 40k in Louisiana when you need to pay for most of health care education etc. isn't that much. The average life in these countries is undeniably better, even if poorer on paper.
2y ago

bigbacaloa 2y ago

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