5 ms·

firefox literally just rugpulled everyone by officially selling people's data starting last week.

hparadiz 2y ago
So disable data sharing. The alternative is selling your data without saying a thing.
mmooss 2y ago
The controversy was misinformation, and the parent post wasn't even what the controversy was. People thought FF had been doing it before. The reality is, as I understand, they just updated their terms to cover all possible legal issues - including that some things you command Firefox to do involves using your data.
- mimasama 2y ago
  > including that some things you command Firefox to do involves using your data. Mozilla has never used the data you upload/send via Firefox to non-Mozilla websites (as it should be), and they shouldn't have that permission just as Epson the company shouldn't have the right to use for any purpose a paper marked as classified just because some fed employee sent a digital copy of it to an Epson printer.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    They don't have that permission.
    - wtallis 2y ago
      Except for the specific cases where their Privacy Notice does give them permission to collect and sell user information, such as collecting information about what topics users are making search queries about.
      - mmooss 2y ago
        > such as collecting information about what topics users are making search queries about. Just read the terms rather than spread misinformation. That data doesn't leave the user's computer. Do you just not care what happens to Mozilla? How does it help to spread misinformation about them?
        wtallis 2y ago
        Excerpts from the Privacy Notice that I have read, and attempted to get you to read: > Mozilla processes certain technical and interaction data, such as how many searches you perform, how many sponsored suggestions you see and whether you interact with them. Mozilla's partners receive de-identified information about interactions with the suggestions they've served. > Depending on your location, Mozilla derives the high level category (e.g., travel, shopping) of your search from keywords in that query, in order to understand the types and number of searches being made. > Mozilla may also receive location-related keywords from your search (such as when you search for “Boston”) and share this with our partners to provide recommended and sponsored content. Your claim "That data doesn't leave the user's computer" is simply not true. Mozilla isn't selling empty files to their advertising partners. The only true and valid defense you've put up for Mozilla in the past week is that they're trying to anonymize the data before they sell it, but that's not nearly as strong an argument as you seem to think it is.
        mmooss 2y ago
        Nothing personal or valuable leaves your computer. Maybe the location queries, but I expect they are anonymized. You are focused on some concept of perfect confidentiality, which is not how real engineering or confidentiality works. I'm not interested in your personal comments. Keep them to yourself.
        wtallis 2y ago
        > Nothing personal or valuable leaves your computer. Maybe the location queries, but I expect they are anonymized. You said "That data doesn't leave the user's computer". It does. You may not consider it personal or valuable and may trust Mozilla's anonymization to be sufficient, but well-written privacy laws rightly do not grant Mozilla (or anyone less trustworthy than Mozilla) that kind of wiggle room.
    - mimasama 2y ago
      See my reply to the other comment. They still have permission, and it doesn't matter how limited they try to scope it. It should be none because they have no business having a license over my own content I upload to non-Mozilla websites: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43263232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43263232
  - sussmannbaka 2y ago
    And they don’t have that permission. Why is everyone skipping over the part of the sentence that specifies that this is only “for the purpose of doing as you request”. As you request! This is night and day to any other TOS I’ve ever read.
    - mmooss 2y ago
      Seriously. Imagine the despair at Mozilla as no matter what they do, people they help and who support FOSS and privacy, tear them apart - seemingly out of habit, or like it's the cool thing to do.
      - kennysoona 2y ago
        You say this like there are not ample valid reasons to criticize Mozilla.
        mmooss 2y ago
        I don't believe there are. The fact that so many pile on is evidence they are wrong - Internet mobs are a strong signal of unreliability.
        kennysoona 2y ago
        You don't believe there are any valid reasons to criticize Mozilla?
        mmooss 2y ago
        What do you get out of this, bringing down Mozilla and arguing senselessly on the Internet?
        kennysoona 2y ago
        I think healthy criticism is ultimately beneficial, whereas blind denial is not.
aembleton 2y ago
Where can I buy the data? Or who are they selling it to?
- agelas 2y ago
  [dead]

So disable data sharing. The alternative is selling your data without saying a thing.

The controversy was misinformation, and the parent post wasn't even what the controversy was. People thought FF had been doing it before. The reality is, as I understand, they just updated their terms to cover all possible legal issues - including that some things you command Firefox to do involves using your data.

mimasama 2y ago
> including that some things you command Firefox to do involves using your data. Mozilla has never used the data you upload/send via Firefox to non-Mozilla websites (as it should be), and they shouldn't have that permission just as Epson the company shouldn't have the right to use for any purpose a paper marked as classified just because some fed employee sent a digital copy of it to an Epson printer.
- mmooss 2y ago
  They don't have that permission.
  - wtallis 2y ago
    Except for the specific cases where their Privacy Notice does give them permission to collect and sell user information, such as collecting information about what topics users are making search queries about.
    - mmooss 2y ago
      > such as collecting information about what topics users are making search queries about. Just read the terms rather than spread misinformation. That data doesn't leave the user's computer. Do you just not care what happens to Mozilla? How does it help to spread misinformation about them?
      - wtallis 2y ago
        Excerpts from the Privacy Notice that I have read, and attempted to get you to read: > Mozilla processes certain technical and interaction data, such as how many searches you perform, how many sponsored suggestions you see and whether you interact with them. Mozilla's partners receive de-identified information about interactions with the suggestions they've served. > Depending on your location, Mozilla derives the high level category (e.g., travel, shopping) of your search from keywords in that query, in order to understand the types and number of searches being made. > Mozilla may also receive location-related keywords from your search (such as when you search for “Boston”) and share this with our partners to provide recommended and sponsored content. Your claim "That data doesn't leave the user's computer" is simply not true. Mozilla isn't selling empty files to their advertising partners. The only true and valid defense you've put up for Mozilla in the past week is that they're trying to anonymize the data before they sell it, but that's not nearly as strong an argument as you seem to think it is.
        mmooss 2y ago
        Nothing personal or valuable leaves your computer. Maybe the location queries, but I expect they are anonymized. You are focused on some concept of perfect confidentiality, which is not how real engineering or confidentiality works. I'm not interested in your personal comments. Keep them to yourself.
        wtallis 2y ago
        > Nothing personal or valuable leaves your computer. Maybe the location queries, but I expect they are anonymized. You said "That data doesn't leave the user's computer". It does. You may not consider it personal or valuable and may trust Mozilla's anonymization to be sufficient, but well-written privacy laws rightly do not grant Mozilla (or anyone less trustworthy than Mozilla) that kind of wiggle room.
  - mimasama 2y ago
    See my reply to the other comment. They still have permission, and it doesn't matter how limited they try to scope it. It should be none because they have no business having a license over my own content I upload to non-Mozilla websites: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43263232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43263232
- sussmannbaka 2y ago
  And they don’t have that permission. Why is everyone skipping over the part of the sentence that specifies that this is only “for the purpose of doing as you request”. As you request! This is night and day to any other TOS I’ve ever read.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    Seriously. Imagine the despair at Mozilla as no matter what they do, people they help and who support FOSS and privacy, tear them apart - seemingly out of habit, or like it's the cool thing to do.
    - kennysoona 2y ago
      You say this like there are not ample valid reasons to criticize Mozilla.
      - mmooss 2y ago
        I don't believe there are. The fact that so many pile on is evidence they are wrong - Internet mobs are a strong signal of unreliability.
        kennysoona 2y ago
        You don't believe there are any valid reasons to criticize Mozilla?
        mmooss 2y ago
        What do you get out of this, bringing down Mozilla and arguing senselessly on the Internet?
        kennysoona 2y ago
        I think healthy criticism is ultimately beneficial, whereas blind denial is not.

aembleton 2y ago

Where can I buy the data? Or who are they selling it to?

agelas 2y ago
[dead]