3 ms·

I guess it’s time for people to come up with open source printers

by b3ing 2y ago

ishtanbul 2y ago
You could probably 3d print most of the parts quite easily except the print head
- RobotToaster 2y ago
  Paper handling is hard, that's why sprocket feed paper used to be popular.
- DaiPlusPlus 2y ago
  Hypothetically... can't you just print a 2D document directly on a 3D printer?
  - aqueueaqueue 2y ago
    Yes but it is expensive and slow, rarely big enough for A4 (or Letter) and would be plastic. Additionally it would be maybe up to 4 colours. Not as in CYMK but as in 4 colours total no mixing. Unless you do a lithographic print but they need a light source to be seen. Also you can print pixels. You convert to G code so it is made up of lines.
  - chongli 2y ago
    3D printers don't have anywhere near the resolution of 2D printers. Take something like a $300 Epson photo printer [1]. It has 5760 x 1440 dpi with 6 colours! [1] https://epson.ca/For-Home/Printers/Photo/Expression-Photo-XP-8700-Wireless-All-in-One-Printer/p/C11CK46201 https://epson.ca/For-Home/Printers/Photo/Expression-Photo-XP...
    - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
      A Creality Ender 3 Pro, a common budget 3D printer, has an accuracy of 0.1mm. That's an equivalent of about 254 DPI. Of course, that's just the positioning. If you're 2D printing on a 3D printer by mounting a pen to the end, you're also limited by the thickness of the pen tip. In any case, you could certainly draw text, but you'd only want to use a font that relies on thin lines, nothing thick. Filled in spaces would be difficult, and of course, photos are just completely out of the question. As mentioned in a sibling comment, really you'd have just reinvented plotters which have existed for decades.
  - Mashimo 2y ago
    Yeah, people have put pens on the printhead to make them into a plotter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10zg0aL0Y5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10zg0aL0Y5M
_carbyau_ 2y ago
It's kind of amazing that capitalism can go so far as to make customers want to opt out and build their fucking own...
conductr 2y ago
Before that, can the firmware be cracked / jail broken some how?
tomkarho 2y ago
Maybe an entire organization will spring from that to combat proprietary software :)
- atq2119 2y ago
  In case anybody doesn't get the reference, printer driver trouble is what initially motivated Stallman to come up with the idea of free software and ultimately the GPL and the FSF.
  - DaSHacka 2y ago
    I can't believe the entire FOSS ecosystem essentially stemmed from printer issues, and we _still_ don't have a mainstream FOSS printer firmware that removes DRM and tracking dots (and whatever else they do nowadays) akin to OpenWRT, but for printers. We have fully open source hardware AND software _3D_ printers capable of printing working guns, but we can't improve the process of squirting ink on paper so it's not universally abhorred?
    - rekoil 2y ago
      It does always sound really crazy because in our minds 3D is more complex than 2D, but in reality 3D printing is actually really really simple, it's basically just 3 motors, a heat block, and an extruder, that's pretty much it. Whereas 2D (inkjet) printing has all of the above (minus one motor), and actually comes with a few non-trivial non-printing related expectations as well, like loading and expelling a print surface (often many in one print), optionally flipping said print surface (and this requires that ink has dried as well) and colour processing to map computer colours to real-world colours.
      - chongli 2y ago
        It's actually even more complicated than that. Modern printers include a raster image processor (RIP) [1]. This specialized software converts vector graphics, text, and pixel-based images into a raster dot pattern that controls the print head. The individual dots that get printed can't be varied in size or brightness, so the variations in image tone are controlled by the density of the dots in the raster pattern. This is called halftone [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_image_processor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_image_processor [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halftone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halftone
MostlyStable 2y ago
This topic has come up several times and there are apparently a host of issues. Patents in paper handling etc. A replacement, open source control board send potentially more doable.
- b800h 2y ago
  We had laser printers in 2005. Anything before that is out of patent.
codethief 2y ago
And then you 3D-print the open-source schematics? ;)
xxs 2y ago
You'd need to be able to 3d print POM, though (or use CNC).
Brian_K_White 2y ago
The entire gnu software movement was started decades ago already because one guy was fed up with printer firmwares and thought they should be replaced with public diy open source firmware to make the printers actually serve their owners. "it's time" was already forever ago and some serious committed practically religious power devs tried and gave up on it, even while toppling practically all other software ecosystems. Hell even the current locked down user-hostile printers are actually running linux and gnu software. That must be exceedingly galling.

I guess it’s time for people to come up with open source printers

by b3ing 2y ago

I guess it’s time for people to come up with open source printers

ishtanbul 2y ago

You could probably 3d print most of the parts quite easily except the print head

RobotToaster 2y ago
Paper handling is hard, that's why sprocket feed paper used to be popular.
DaiPlusPlus 2y ago
Hypothetically... can't you just print a 2D document directly on a 3D printer?
- aqueueaqueue 2y ago
  Yes but it is expensive and slow, rarely big enough for A4 (or Letter) and would be plastic. Additionally it would be maybe up to 4 colours. Not as in CYMK but as in 4 colours total no mixing. Unless you do a lithographic print but they need a light source to be seen. Also you can print pixels. You convert to G code so it is made up of lines.
- chongli 2y ago
  3D printers don't have anywhere near the resolution of 2D printers. Take something like a $300 Epson photo printer [1]. It has 5760 x 1440 dpi with 6 colours! [1] https://epson.ca/For-Home/Printers/Photo/Expression-Photo-XP-8700-Wireless-All-in-One-Printer/p/C11CK46201 https://epson.ca/For-Home/Printers/Photo/Expression-Photo-XP...
  - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
    A Creality Ender 3 Pro, a common budget 3D printer, has an accuracy of 0.1mm. That's an equivalent of about 254 DPI. Of course, that's just the positioning. If you're 2D printing on a 3D printer by mounting a pen to the end, you're also limited by the thickness of the pen tip. In any case, you could certainly draw text, but you'd only want to use a font that relies on thin lines, nothing thick. Filled in spaces would be difficult, and of course, photos are just completely out of the question. As mentioned in a sibling comment, really you'd have just reinvented plotters which have existed for decades.
- Mashimo 2y ago
  Yeah, people have put pens on the printhead to make them into a plotter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10zg0aL0Y5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10zg0aL0Y5M

_carbyau_ 2y ago

It's kind of amazing that capitalism can go so far as to make customers want to opt out and build their fucking own...

conductr 2y ago

Before that, can the firmware be cracked / jail broken some how?

tomkarho 2y ago

Maybe an entire organization will spring from that to combat proprietary software :)

atq2119 2y ago
In case anybody doesn't get the reference, printer driver trouble is what initially motivated Stallman to come up with the idea of free software and ultimately the GPL and the FSF.
- DaSHacka 2y ago
  I can't believe the entire FOSS ecosystem essentially stemmed from printer issues, and we _still_ don't have a mainstream FOSS printer firmware that removes DRM and tracking dots (and whatever else they do nowadays) akin to OpenWRT, but for printers. We have fully open source hardware AND software _3D_ printers capable of printing working guns, but we can't improve the process of squirting ink on paper so it's not universally abhorred?
  - rekoil 2y ago
    It does always sound really crazy because in our minds 3D is more complex than 2D, but in reality 3D printing is actually really really simple, it's basically just 3 motors, a heat block, and an extruder, that's pretty much it. Whereas 2D (inkjet) printing has all of the above (minus one motor), and actually comes with a few non-trivial non-printing related expectations as well, like loading and expelling a print surface (often many in one print), optionally flipping said print surface (and this requires that ink has dried as well) and colour processing to map computer colours to real-world colours.
    - chongli 2y ago
      It's actually even more complicated than that. Modern printers include a raster image processor (RIP) [1]. This specialized software converts vector graphics, text, and pixel-based images into a raster dot pattern that controls the print head. The individual dots that get printed can't be varied in size or brightness, so the variations in image tone are controlled by the density of the dots in the raster pattern. This is called halftone [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_image_processor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_image_processor [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halftone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halftone

MostlyStable 2y ago

This topic has come up several times and there are apparently a host of issues. Patents in paper handling etc. A replacement, open source control board send potentially more doable.

b800h 2y ago
We had laser printers in 2005. Anything before that is out of patent.

codethief 2y ago

And then you 3D-print the open-source schematics? ;)

xxs 2y ago

You'd need to be able to 3d print POM, though (or use CNC).

Brian_K_White 2y ago

The entire gnu software movement was started decades ago already because one guy was fed up with printer firmwares and thought they should be replaced with public diy open source firmware to make the printers actually serve their owners. "it's time" was already forever ago and some serious committed practically religious power devs tried and gave up on it, even while toppling practically all other software ecosystems. Hell even the current locked down user-hostile printers are actually running linux and gnu software. That must be exceedingly galling.