4 ms·

I tried to move to tmux, mostly because the Red hat servers at work don't have screen, but I found out I really really prefer screen. The whole server/session/w

by remram 2y ago

I tried to move to tmux, mostly because the Red hat servers at work don't have screen, but I found out I really really prefer screen. The whole server/session/window/pane thing is overly complicated and somehow still less capable than screen's session/pane/window. It's a tiny bit more scriptable, but it's not like a real API either.

axiolite 2y ago
"I tried caviar but found I really prefer hot dogs..."
- remram 2y ago
  That's insulting while also lacking any arguments. Good job.
  - axiolite 2y ago
    I was illustrating that the parent comment was "lacking any arguments."
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - remram 2y ago
      And you did that by removing the arguments before replacing "screen" with "hot dogs"? Neat.
      - axiolite 2y ago
        You included no arguments. You only hinted that something is "somehow" more complex and less capable. Analogies usually help people understand things. I don't see why you're offended and obstinate, but you can of course keep it up if you like. Have a nice day.
        remram 2y ago
        I see. What you meant to say is "how is it less capable?" and you just misspelled that as "hurr durr I like nothing but hotdogs". You also straight up ignored the part where I listed the 4-level design that I find complicated. But I'm the obstinate one! Thanks for explaining.
pkulak 2y ago
I love it. I have this whole system set up where each desktop gets its own session. So, any time I open a terminal on desktop 2, I get session 2. Then I can make all the windows I need (I very rarely split anything, but cool to be able to) and close the terminal when I’m done. When I open it again later, it’s all still there. I used to absolute overwhelm myself with terminal windows; now it’s all organized.
- remram 2y ago
  So you don't benefit from the existence of panes OR servers, the random multi-level design of tmux doesn't do anything for you either.
  - pkulak 2y ago
    I don’t understand any of that. Sorry. If you rephrase, maybe I can answer?
    - remram 2y ago
      I find the 4-level object model of tmux too complicated (server/session/window/pane). Even your use case, which is non-standard and meant to showcase the potential of tmux, only uses windows in sessions and does not need the complexity of tmux's object model. In fact it is totally doable with screen (one "session" per desktop, which is similar to a tmux "server"). I simply deplore that the tmux developers obviously thought long and hard about this design only to come up with something needlessly complicated and in the end less capable than screen's model (since you can't have different clients with the same windows in different layouts).
kennysoona 2y ago
> and somehow still less capable than screen's session/pane/window. How is it less capable?
- remram 2y ago
  You can't attach the same windows in multiple locations with different layouts. With screen, I can have windows 0 and 1 in a vertical split on my laptop, and windows 0 and 3 in a horizontal split on my desktop. With tmux, you attach to a session and it has the same layout everywhere. You can have attach different servers or different sessions but you can't even show different windows in the same session, let alone have different layouts. If my laptop shows window 1 containing 2 panes, my desktop can only show window 1, and it will contain 2 panes. Changing the layout or the active window will change it everywhere.
  - kennysoona 2y ago
    Interesting, I've never tried to work like that so haven't experienced the difference. Thank you for answering.
gosub100 2y ago
I know it's a week old post so doubt you'll see this, but if you ever try tmux again, try remapping the control command to a single key. And remap the horizontal and vertical splits. For instance, I remapped the backtick key since I rarely use it. ' | means split vertical ' space means split horizontal ' h,k,j,l means go to the left down up right pane. ' z means zoom the frame to full size If you are interested I can show you my tmux conf. I'm not a ricer, the config I use is very simple, I find it just removes friction and makes it much more usable. Plus I can still type a backtick by pressing it twice

by remram 2y ago

axiolite 2y ago

"I tried caviar but found I really prefer hot dogs..."

remram 2y ago
That's insulting while also lacking any arguments. Good job.
- axiolite 2y ago
  I was illustrating that the parent comment was "lacking any arguments."
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - remram 2y ago
    And you did that by removing the arguments before replacing "screen" with "hot dogs"? Neat.
    - axiolite 2y ago
      You included no arguments. You only hinted that something is "somehow" more complex and less capable. Analogies usually help people understand things. I don't see why you're offended and obstinate, but you can of course keep it up if you like. Have a nice day.
      - remram 2y ago
        I see. What you meant to say is "how is it less capable?" and you just misspelled that as "hurr durr I like nothing but hotdogs". You also straight up ignored the part where I listed the 4-level design that I find complicated. But I'm the obstinate one! Thanks for explaining.

pkulak 2y ago

I love it. I have this whole system set up where each desktop gets its own session. So, any time I open a terminal on desktop 2, I get session 2. Then I can make all the windows I need (I very rarely split anything, but cool to be able to) and close the terminal when I’m done. When I open it again later, it’s all still there. I used to absolute overwhelm myself with terminal windows; now it’s all organized.

remram 2y ago
So you don't benefit from the existence of panes OR servers, the random multi-level design of tmux doesn't do anything for you either.
- pkulak 2y ago
  I don’t understand any of that. Sorry. If you rephrase, maybe I can answer?
  - remram 2y ago
    I find the 4-level object model of tmux too complicated (server/session/window/pane). Even your use case, which is non-standard and meant to showcase the potential of tmux, only uses windows in sessions and does not need the complexity of tmux's object model. In fact it is totally doable with screen (one "session" per desktop, which is similar to a tmux "server"). I simply deplore that the tmux developers obviously thought long and hard about this design only to come up with something needlessly complicated and in the end less capable than screen's model (since you can't have different clients with the same windows in different layouts).

kennysoona 2y ago

> and somehow still less capable than screen's session/pane/window. How is it less capable?

remram 2y ago
You can't attach the same windows in multiple locations with different layouts. With screen, I can have windows 0 and 1 in a vertical split on my laptop, and windows 0 and 3 in a horizontal split on my desktop. With tmux, you attach to a session and it has the same layout everywhere. You can have attach different servers or different sessions but you can't even show different windows in the same session, let alone have different layouts. If my laptop shows window 1 containing 2 panes, my desktop can only show window 1, and it will contain 2 panes. Changing the layout or the active window will change it everywhere.
- kennysoona 2y ago
  Interesting, I've never tried to work like that so haven't experienced the difference. Thank you for answering.

gosub100 2y ago

I know it's a week old post so doubt you'll see this, but if you ever try tmux again, try remapping the control command to a single key. And remap the horizontal and vertical splits. For instance, I remapped the backtick key since I rarely use it. ' | means split vertical ' space means split horizontal ' h,k,j,l means go to the left down up right pane. ' z means zoom the frame to full size If you are interested I can show you my tmux conf. I'm not a ricer, the config I use is very simple, I find it just removes friction and makes it much more usable. Plus I can still type a backtick by pressing it twice