4 ms·

Zelensky says he is ready to negotiate peace

21 points by DamnYuppie 2y ago

DamnYuppie 2y ago
[flagged]
- layer8 2y ago
  You seem to be misinterpreting those quotes as a change in Ukraine’s stance.
- immibis 2y ago
  Isn't Zelensky always ready to negotiate peace? The problem is that Russia isn't. Not without so many strings attached that Ukraine actually finds it more advantageous to continue fighting.
  - bigyabai 2y ago
    Right. We've already negotiated peace in Ukraine, and the issue is that it is not respected by Ukraine's adversaries. "Strong leadership" means lasting peace. Nobody is going to win a Nobel prize for being a puppet of the Russian Federation. With respect to the Budapest memorandum, this is organized harassment, not negotiations.
    - immibis 2y ago
      You might want to look at the previous Nobel Peace Prize recipients.
- beretguy 2y ago
  > This is what strong American leadership That's not leadership. That's blackmail.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  This is a bit disingenuous. Ukraine was never against a peace deal, and its position hasn't changed. What's changed is that the US is trying to sell them out to Russia, and that's something that Ukraine isn't going to, and shouldn't, accept. What would the US do if it were in Ukraine's position? It certainly wouldn't go along with some other power telling it that it has to lose. > This is what strong American leadership gets you, get used to it. I see no strong American leadership here. I see a weak president throwing a hissy fit because Zelensky wasn't willing to sufficiently kneel down and kiss Trump's ass. Zelensky is the strong leader here.
  - billy99k 2y ago
    "I see no strong American leadership here. I see a weak president throwing a hissy fit because Zelensky wasn't willing to sufficiently kneel down and kiss Trump's ass. Zelensky is the strong leader here." Are you serious? Powerful people know their place and Zelensky definitely didn't know his. Trump only threw a 'hissy fit' as you claim, because Zelensky started making demands, when he should be thanking the US for the billions of dollars we already poured into his country. Definitely a sign of a weak leader. Another sign is completely getting rid of fair and Democratic elections and forcing men at gun point to fight in a war where they will most likely get killed. Only one person on that stage did this. It's funny, none of the Zelensky supporters will mention this, even though you've accused Trump of wanting to get rid of elections for years. "What would the US do if it were in Ukraine's position? It certainly wouldn't go along with some other power telling it that it has to lose." They wouldn't bite the hand that feeds them.
    - mrkeen 2y ago
      Some light reading on the 'thankful' angle. Not that it matters one bit. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/28/politics/volodymyr-zelensky-thankful-us-fact-check/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/28/politics/volodymyr-zelens...
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      > Zelensky started making demands Yes, entirely reasonable and necessary ones (a security guarantee). He only did it in public because Trump had just publicly made false statements that were intended to undercut those. That's what a strong leader does: stands up for his nation when necessary. > he should be thanking the US for the billions of dollars we already poured into his country. Zelensky has been thanking the US continuously all along. There's no shortage of expressions of gratitude here. What got Trump angry was that Zelensky wasn't grovelling to Trump personally. That has nothing to do with the US and everything to do with Trump's weakness and lack of character. Trump is not the US. > you've accused Trump of wanting to get rid of elections for years. I have done no such thing. > They wouldn't bite the hand that feeds them. Zelensky did no such thing, but I could absolutely see Trump doing so.
- beretguy 2y ago
  > Canada/Mexico you are on the clock.... Can you explain what you mean here?
  - layer8 2y ago
    Presumably the trade war that has begun: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/donald-trump/trump-updates-latest-news-analysis-reaction-tariffs-ukraine-aid-pause-2025-03-04/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/donald-trump/trump-updates-...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
draw_down 2y ago
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throwaway48476 2y ago
Everyone is 'for peace' but none of them will say what they will give up for peace. Trump and the peace crowd need to be honest.
- immibis 2y ago
  On Ukraine's terms, Russia just has to give up its dreams of conquering Ukraine. On Russia's terms, Ukraine has to give up its existence as an independent country, half its people and most things of value within the country. Either way, Russia won't get its non-US overseas frozen assets back.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    I've heard that Russia is demanding NATO withdraw to 1990 borders.
    - immibis 2y ago
      Which is obviously nonsense, because no NATO country has expanded since 1990.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  I don’t think anyone can be honest about a live negotiation in public. It’s all going to happen behind closed doors. But realistically, what will happen is that Russia will just formally gain the territories it took over in 2014 after the coup in Ukraine that overthrew Yanukovych. This is not a bad outcome for stability in the region, to be honest - those areas have historically been more Russia-aligned and voted for Yanukovych. It’s not clear why they should be in Ukraine if the coup can just erase their democratic selection.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Yanukovych won by promising to sign the EU accession treaty. It wasn't until Putin blackmailed him and the Europeans wouldn't backfill that he was forced to go back on it leading to the maidan protests.
oldpersonintx 2y ago
[dead]
cuuupid 2y ago
This comes on the heels of meetings with European leaders, which poses two possibilities: 1 - European leaders are talking the talk but afraid of actually walking the walk with respect to Russia, even despite Putin being drastically weakened over the last two years, which does not bode well at all. We have been hearing much in recent years about the (dismal) state of readiness within the US military. Given reliance on the US for defense, it is entirely plausible the state of European militaries is even worse. Russia and Iran are not going to stop their push; we need a strong Europe to prevent a nightmare scenario. 2 - It is also possible that Zelensky actually was being overly pushy, asking for too much, reneging on deals, exploiting media, etc. and European countries chose to curb discussions as well, forcing him to come back to the table with the US. This tracks with past difficulties the Biden administration faced in talks with Zelensky[A] and aligns with the narrative that Trump has been pushing in recent days. This, honestly, would be an even worse scenario. That would somehow place Zelensky _below_ Trump in reasonable-ness and diplomatic maturity, which is an already impossibly low bar. This of course does not bode well for peace talks. Regardless of political stance I think we can all agree the current West is not ready for WW3 to start right away. I feel this is slightly less likely as it seems Zelensky is coming back to the table on his own imperative. [A] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/biden-lost-temper-zelenskyy-phone-call-ukraine-aid-rcna54592 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/biden-los...
- EA-3167 2y ago
  1 Is definitely a factor, after all these are the same people who've been crowing about their sacrifice and bravery in cutting off Russian oil and gas, despite not actually doing any such thing. https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/eu-imports-of-russian-fossil-fuels-in-third-year-of-invasion-surpass-financial-aid-sent-to-ukraine/ https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/eu-imports-of-russ... Unless you really believe that one month of Trump is all it takes for the EU to suddenly take their own defense seriously, and damn the political consequences when the costs hit. 2 I don't think so, I believe he's understandably desperate for security guarantees that go further than the paper ones Russia blew past in 2014 and 2022. Sadly I think he isn't getting them, and between the fiction of European unity and the reality of economic partnership with the US, the latter is more likely to lead to meaningful security.
lawn 2y ago
You should go read Zelensky's response on X. It feels very professional, something that's missing from the other party.
k310 2y ago
I believe that the mineral deal had a security guarantee from the U.S. "at some future date" like the "infrastructure plan" still on hold for 8 years, meaning empty. Look at all the "cancellations" of Biden programs in one month. One side should not pay in advance while the other is free to renege. Perhaps European leaders filled that vacuum. Or perhaps it's a recalibration given a two-front war.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  >Perhaps European leaders filled that vacuum. Sure thing, US gets Ukraine's valuable minerals and Europe foots the bill for Ukraine's defense.

21 points by DamnYuppie 2y ago

DamnYuppie 2y ago

[flagged]

layer8 2y ago
You seem to be misinterpreting those quotes as a change in Ukraine’s stance.
immibis 2y ago
Isn't Zelensky always ready to negotiate peace? The problem is that Russia isn't. Not without so many strings attached that Ukraine actually finds it more advantageous to continue fighting.
- bigyabai 2y ago
  Right. We've already negotiated peace in Ukraine, and the issue is that it is not respected by Ukraine's adversaries. "Strong leadership" means lasting peace. Nobody is going to win a Nobel prize for being a puppet of the Russian Federation. With respect to the Budapest memorandum, this is organized harassment, not negotiations.
  - immibis 2y ago
    You might want to look at the previous Nobel Peace Prize recipients.
beretguy 2y ago
> This is what strong American leadership That's not leadership. That's blackmail.
JohnFen 2y ago
This is a bit disingenuous. Ukraine was never against a peace deal, and its position hasn't changed. What's changed is that the US is trying to sell them out to Russia, and that's something that Ukraine isn't going to, and shouldn't, accept. What would the US do if it were in Ukraine's position? It certainly wouldn't go along with some other power telling it that it has to lose. > This is what strong American leadership gets you, get used to it. I see no strong American leadership here. I see a weak president throwing a hissy fit because Zelensky wasn't willing to sufficiently kneel down and kiss Trump's ass. Zelensky is the strong leader here.
- billy99k 2y ago
  "I see no strong American leadership here. I see a weak president throwing a hissy fit because Zelensky wasn't willing to sufficiently kneel down and kiss Trump's ass. Zelensky is the strong leader here." Are you serious? Powerful people know their place and Zelensky definitely didn't know his. Trump only threw a 'hissy fit' as you claim, because Zelensky started making demands, when he should be thanking the US for the billions of dollars we already poured into his country. Definitely a sign of a weak leader. Another sign is completely getting rid of fair and Democratic elections and forcing men at gun point to fight in a war where they will most likely get killed. Only one person on that stage did this. It's funny, none of the Zelensky supporters will mention this, even though you've accused Trump of wanting to get rid of elections for years. "What would the US do if it were in Ukraine's position? It certainly wouldn't go along with some other power telling it that it has to lose." They wouldn't bite the hand that feeds them.
  - mrkeen 2y ago
    Some light reading on the 'thankful' angle. Not that it matters one bit. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/28/politics/volodymyr-zelensky-thankful-us-fact-check/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/28/politics/volodymyr-zelens...
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    > Zelensky started making demands Yes, entirely reasonable and necessary ones (a security guarantee). He only did it in public because Trump had just publicly made false statements that were intended to undercut those. That's what a strong leader does: stands up for his nation when necessary. > he should be thanking the US for the billions of dollars we already poured into his country. Zelensky has been thanking the US continuously all along. There's no shortage of expressions of gratitude here. What got Trump angry was that Zelensky wasn't grovelling to Trump personally. That has nothing to do with the US and everything to do with Trump's weakness and lack of character. Trump is not the US. > you've accused Trump of wanting to get rid of elections for years. I have done no such thing. > They wouldn't bite the hand that feeds them. Zelensky did no such thing, but I could absolutely see Trump doing so.
beretguy 2y ago
> Canada/Mexico you are on the clock.... Can you explain what you mean here?
- layer8 2y ago
  Presumably the trade war that has begun: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/donald-trump/trump-updates-latest-news-analysis-reaction-tariffs-ukraine-aid-pause-2025-03-04/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/donald-trump/trump-updates-...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

draw_down 2y ago

[dead]

throwaway48476 2y ago

Everyone is 'for peace' but none of them will say what they will give up for peace. Trump and the peace crowd need to be honest.

immibis 2y ago
On Ukraine's terms, Russia just has to give up its dreams of conquering Ukraine. On Russia's terms, Ukraine has to give up its existence as an independent country, half its people and most things of value within the country. Either way, Russia won't get its non-US overseas frozen assets back.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  I've heard that Russia is demanding NATO withdraw to 1990 borders.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Which is obviously nonsense, because no NATO country has expanded since 1990.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
I don’t think anyone can be honest about a live negotiation in public. It’s all going to happen behind closed doors. But realistically, what will happen is that Russia will just formally gain the territories it took over in 2014 after the coup in Ukraine that overthrew Yanukovych. This is not a bad outcome for stability in the region, to be honest - those areas have historically been more Russia-aligned and voted for Yanukovych. It’s not clear why they should be in Ukraine if the coup can just erase their democratic selection.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Yanukovych won by promising to sign the EU accession treaty. It wasn't until Putin blackmailed him and the Europeans wouldn't backfill that he was forced to go back on it leading to the maidan protests.

oldpersonintx 2y ago

[dead]

cuuupid 2y ago

This comes on the heels of meetings with European leaders, which poses two possibilities: 1 - European leaders are talking the talk but afraid of actually walking the walk with respect to Russia, even despite Putin being drastically weakened over the last two years, which does not bode well at all. We have been hearing much in recent years about the (dismal) state of readiness within the US military. Given reliance on the US for defense, it is entirely plausible the state of European militaries is even worse. Russia and Iran are not going to stop their push; we need a strong Europe to prevent a nightmare scenario. 2 - It is also possible that Zelensky actually was being overly pushy, asking for too much, reneging on deals, exploiting media, etc. and European countries chose to curb discussions as well, forcing him to come back to the table with the US. This tracks with past difficulties the Biden administration faced in talks with Zelensky[A] and aligns with the narrative that Trump has been pushing in recent days. This, honestly, would be an even worse scenario. That would somehow place Zelensky _below_ Trump in reasonable-ness and diplomatic maturity, which is an already impossibly low bar. This of course does not bode well for peace talks. Regardless of political stance I think we can all agree the current West is not ready for WW3 to start right away. I feel this is slightly less likely as it seems Zelensky is coming back to the table on his own imperative. [A] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/biden-lost-temper-zelenskyy-phone-call-ukraine-aid-rcna54592 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/biden-los...

EA-3167 2y ago
1 Is definitely a factor, after all these are the same people who've been crowing about their sacrifice and bravery in cutting off Russian oil and gas, despite not actually doing any such thing. https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/eu-imports-of-russian-fossil-fuels-in-third-year-of-invasion-surpass-financial-aid-sent-to-ukraine/ https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/eu-imports-of-russ... Unless you really believe that one month of Trump is all it takes for the EU to suddenly take their own defense seriously, and damn the political consequences when the costs hit. 2 I don't think so, I believe he's understandably desperate for security guarantees that go further than the paper ones Russia blew past in 2014 and 2022. Sadly I think he isn't getting them, and between the fiction of European unity and the reality of economic partnership with the US, the latter is more likely to lead to meaningful security.

lawn 2y ago

You should go read Zelensky's response on X. It feels very professional, something that's missing from the other party.

k310 2y ago

I believe that the mineral deal had a security guarantee from the U.S. "at some future date" like the "infrastructure plan" still on hold for 8 years, meaning empty. Look at all the "cancellations" of Biden programs in one month. One side should not pay in advance while the other is free to renege. Perhaps European leaders filled that vacuum. Or perhaps it's a recalibration given a two-front war.

FirmwareBurner 2y ago
>Perhaps European leaders filled that vacuum. Sure thing, US gets Ukraine's valuable minerals and Europe foots the bill for Ukraine's defense.