4 ms·

"My body, my choice" applies to more than one issue related to bodily autonomy. Others get no say in what an individual may do with their own bodies.

moralestapia 2y ago
Yah, good one. Unfortunately, that is not some kind of universally agreed ethical principle, so I am not sure what value it brings to this conversation.
- mariusor 2y ago
  Outside of ethical systems with heavy religious influences, what kind of society doesn't accept one's autonomy over their own body?
  - lostmsu 2y ago
    All of them. Is there a country without draft?
    - mariusor 2y ago
      I think the draft qualifies as "exigent conditions" in which some rights and ethics get suspended in favour of the "greater good", or if you mean mandatory military service, I think most western nations stopped having that. Do you have something more mundane in mind? [edit] To answer your question: yes, there are only 66 countries with mandatory military service. Among the Western democracies there are the Nordics, Estonia, Austria and Greece. From here: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-mandatory-military-service https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...
      - lostmsu 2y ago
        I don't see how "greater good" justification is any different between my example and the topic.
        mariusor 2y ago
        The ethical system on which modern Western societies are built allows for body autonomy, while at the same time covers some corner cases: war, pandemic, etc. The fact that there are exceptions doesn't somehow invalidate the basics.
  - aipatselarom 2y ago
    Were you on Planet Earth between 2020 and 2022? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic
    - mariusor 2y ago
      I'm not sure I'm ready to accept the fact that having rights restricted is a body autonomy issue outside of being in solitary confinement. I commented in a different thread about "exigent conditions" which sometimes can trump personal liberties or even body autonomy when the "greater good" is concerned. If I'd entertain your statement as being on topic, I'd say that national measures in a global pandemic fit that.
      - aipatselarom 2y ago
        Good. Then you don't have "autonomy over your own body". The other commenter on this sub-thread just gave you another example of that.
        mariusor 2y ago
        Exceptions don't invalidate rules. Jesus, it's like I'm debating with preschoolers.
        aipatselarom 2y ago
        >Exceptions don't invalidate rules. Source, you? I could argue the opposite. If your purported "exception" applies to 80%+ of the global population, a minimal dash of common sense would make me think that's the rule, not the other way around. Your "exception"s are quite loose, pal!
        mariusor 2y ago
        What do you mean 80% of the global population? OK, don't answer that, I did my own research[1] and from the Western democracies that have mandatory military service there are: Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Greece and Estonia. They're more than I expected, and overall, including less democratic nations, there's a total of 66 (out of 194). By population it's even less, as none of the top countries except Brazil and Russia have mandatory service. So overall that's very much less than 80%, but definitely more than I was expecting. [1] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-mandatory-military-service https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...

moralestapia 2y ago

Yah, good one. Unfortunately, that is not some kind of universally agreed ethical principle, so I am not sure what value it brings to this conversation.

mariusor 2y ago
Outside of ethical systems with heavy religious influences, what kind of society doesn't accept one's autonomy over their own body?
- lostmsu 2y ago
  All of them. Is there a country without draft?
  - mariusor 2y ago
    I think the draft qualifies as "exigent conditions" in which some rights and ethics get suspended in favour of the "greater good", or if you mean mandatory military service, I think most western nations stopped having that. Do you have something more mundane in mind? [edit] To answer your question: yes, there are only 66 countries with mandatory military service. Among the Western democracies there are the Nordics, Estonia, Austria and Greece. From here: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-mandatory-military-service https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...
    - lostmsu 2y ago
      I don't see how "greater good" justification is any different between my example and the topic.
      - mariusor 2y ago
        The ethical system on which modern Western societies are built allows for body autonomy, while at the same time covers some corner cases: war, pandemic, etc. The fact that there are exceptions doesn't somehow invalidate the basics.
- aipatselarom 2y ago
  Were you on Planet Earth between 2020 and 2022? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic
  - mariusor 2y ago
    I'm not sure I'm ready to accept the fact that having rights restricted is a body autonomy issue outside of being in solitary confinement. I commented in a different thread about "exigent conditions" which sometimes can trump personal liberties or even body autonomy when the "greater good" is concerned. If I'd entertain your statement as being on topic, I'd say that national measures in a global pandemic fit that.
    - aipatselarom 2y ago
      Good. Then you don't have "autonomy over your own body". The other commenter on this sub-thread just gave you another example of that.
      - mariusor 2y ago
        Exceptions don't invalidate rules. Jesus, it's like I'm debating with preschoolers.
        aipatselarom 2y ago
        >Exceptions don't invalidate rules. Source, you? I could argue the opposite. If your purported "exception" applies to 80%+ of the global population, a minimal dash of common sense would make me think that's the rule, not the other way around. Your "exception"s are quite loose, pal!
        mariusor 2y ago
        What do you mean 80% of the global population? OK, don't answer that, I did my own research[1] and from the Western democracies that have mandatory military service there are: Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Greece and Estonia. They're more than I expected, and overall, including less democratic nations, there's a total of 66 (out of 194). By population it's even less, as none of the top countries except Brazil and Russia have mandatory service. So overall that's very much less than 80%, but definitely more than I was expecting. [1] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-mandatory-military-service https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...