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Being old enough to go to war means being old enough to make life altering decisions by herself.

dylan604 2y ago
It is pretty well accepted that the human brain does not fully mature until mid-20s. So a full blown adult is different than legally considered adult.
- blueflow 2y ago
  Maybe but why should their Dad still have a say in this?
- Shank 2y ago
  > So a full blown adult is different than legally considered adult. We have to create a line somewhere and currently that line is the age of majority. Some people mature faster than others, and even you didn’t provide a specific age. How are we supposed to make decisions about what constitutes an adult without a firm cutoff?
  - grayhatter 2y ago
    I think it's reasonable to have different lines for different decisions. Driving at 16 is fine, voting at 18 feels young (subjectively, but more young people should vote), drinking at 21 feels responsibile, can consent to suicide at the age of the 95th percentile where brains have stopped growing/maturing feels reasonable? I think I heard your brain is growing until the age of 25, and IIRC The odds of being diagnosed with schizophrenia goes up until the age of 26, so maybe 26 is the age which you're considered adult enough to consent to suicide?
    - mariusor 2y ago
      Where do you think the age of being allowed to enlist in the army should be?
      - grayhatter 2y ago
        Oooh, that's an interesting question. So, normally I'd reject the hypothetical here, and say war is bad, so "should" doesn't apply. But instead, if I can assume it's required for existence, society should define the minimum age as high as possible to ensure victory. Fighting in a war is actively harmful to feeling safe. Feeling safe is required for individuals to grow at the maximum rate. Growing as a child has the same effects as compounding interest, so the absolute best growth possible should be the target for everyone, as early as possible. If you're talking about joining a standing army without consideration for combat. I don't think there's any minimum age. I used to teach a "combat sport" to children as young as 4. Then, for the US army, which I know about, I think 18 is perfectly reasonable, where many people could gain very useful skills/education from the training that joining the US military entails.
        mariusor 2y ago
        > most people could gain very useful skills/education from the training that joining the US military entails And also can get very dead from the numerous conflicts in which the US keeps getting involved in.
        rtkwe 2y ago
        Even during peaceful years like the 90s or in non direct combat roles being in the military is very hard on the body though infantry get the brunt of it.
- pjc50 2y ago
  > pretty well accepted [citation needed] It's certainly the case that suicide and reckless death are more common in young people and teenagers, but I'm not convinced by all this mature brain argument as it tends to be deployed selectively to infantilize people.
- watwut 2y ago
  Amd then it starts to regress right after. So, you get 5 min of full maturity in your life - by that logic.
- jasaldivara 2y ago
  Any scientific source on that "well accepted fact"?
- nemomarx 2y ago
  that study actually has a lot of noted flaws. they didn't include patients over 25, I think, so you can't really say that you're fully mature at 25. maybe the brain never stops maturing.
- DiggyJohnson 2y ago
  I believe that within a decade this perspective will be ridiculed.
ninetyninenine 2y ago
Adults are just children with more money. Everyone needs guidance. There are plenty of stories of interrupted suicides that ultimately changed the fate of an individual. They were saved and they were glad they were saved. This happens at all ages. The fact that you can say that being old enough to go to war means that someone is old enough to make life altering decisions as if just this arbitrary numeric number means something because it was encoded into law shows that you’re not ready to say who has the right to go to war, go to war yourself, nor say anything about who has the right to go suicide. Think before you follow some arbitrary rule and make that rule the axiom for your logic.

It is pretty well accepted that the human brain does not fully mature until mid-20s. So a full blown adult is different than legally considered adult.

blueflow 2y ago
Maybe but why should their Dad still have a say in this?
Shank 2y ago
> So a full blown adult is different than legally considered adult. We have to create a line somewhere and currently that line is the age of majority. Some people mature faster than others, and even you didn’t provide a specific age. How are we supposed to make decisions about what constitutes an adult without a firm cutoff?
- grayhatter 2y ago
  I think it's reasonable to have different lines for different decisions. Driving at 16 is fine, voting at 18 feels young (subjectively, but more young people should vote), drinking at 21 feels responsibile, can consent to suicide at the age of the 95th percentile where brains have stopped growing/maturing feels reasonable? I think I heard your brain is growing until the age of 25, and IIRC The odds of being diagnosed with schizophrenia goes up until the age of 26, so maybe 26 is the age which you're considered adult enough to consent to suicide?
  - mariusor 2y ago
    Where do you think the age of being allowed to enlist in the army should be?
    - grayhatter 2y ago
      Oooh, that's an interesting question. So, normally I'd reject the hypothetical here, and say war is bad, so "should" doesn't apply. But instead, if I can assume it's required for existence, society should define the minimum age as high as possible to ensure victory. Fighting in a war is actively harmful to feeling safe. Feeling safe is required for individuals to grow at the maximum rate. Growing as a child has the same effects as compounding interest, so the absolute best growth possible should be the target for everyone, as early as possible. If you're talking about joining a standing army without consideration for combat. I don't think there's any minimum age. I used to teach a "combat sport" to children as young as 4. Then, for the US army, which I know about, I think 18 is perfectly reasonable, where many people could gain very useful skills/education from the training that joining the US military entails.
      - mariusor 2y ago
        > most people could gain very useful skills/education from the training that joining the US military entails And also can get very dead from the numerous conflicts in which the US keeps getting involved in.
        rtkwe 2y ago
        Even during peaceful years like the 90s or in non direct combat roles being in the military is very hard on the body though infantry get the brunt of it.
pjc50 2y ago
> pretty well accepted [citation needed] It's certainly the case that suicide and reckless death are more common in young people and teenagers, but I'm not convinced by all this mature brain argument as it tends to be deployed selectively to infantilize people.
watwut 2y ago
Amd then it starts to regress right after. So, you get 5 min of full maturity in your life - by that logic.
jasaldivara 2y ago
Any scientific source on that "well accepted fact"?
nemomarx 2y ago
that study actually has a lot of noted flaws. they didn't include patients over 25, I think, so you can't really say that you're fully mature at 25. maybe the brain never stops maturing.
DiggyJohnson 2y ago
I believe that within a decade this perspective will be ridiculed.

ninetyninenine 2y ago

Adults are just children with more money. Everyone needs guidance. There are plenty of stories of interrupted suicides that ultimately changed the fate of an individual. They were saved and they were glad they were saved. This happens at all ages. The fact that you can say that being old enough to go to war means that someone is old enough to make life altering decisions as if just this arbitrary numeric number means something because it was encoded into law shows that you’re not ready to say who has the right to go to war, go to war yourself, nor say anything about who has the right to go suicide. Think before you follow some arbitrary rule and make that rule the axiom for your logic.