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Starlink is helping Ukraine, connects many remote populations, and provides emergency connectivity during natural disasters. Tesla brought EVs to the mainstrea

Starlink is helping Ukraine, connects many remote populations, and provides emergency connectivity during natural disasters. Tesla brought EVs to the mainstream. How exactly are they a threat to the free world?

closewith 2y ago
Any and all dependence on the US is now a liability to the remaining democracies.
rvnx 2y ago
https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-access-starlink-internet-services-over-minerals-say-2025-02-22/ https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-acces...
- theultdev 2y ago
  keyword: could but in this reality now they are helping and have been for awhile. articles like those you have linked have always been appearing, but it only highlights how useful starlink has been. what other company has helped provide internet to ukraine?
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    They already did cut it once around the Black Sea coast and prevented an attack on some Russian ships in the region. Something that USAID was investigating Starlink for (and I'm sure this next part is a total coincidence /s) and USAID was one of the first targets of the DOGE purges.
    - theultdev 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - rvnx 2y ago
        It's a bit like if someone sells you one jet fighter (Starlink is a paid service). Then, the manufacturer threatens you to disconnect the plane remotely if you don't agree to their absolutely unrelated wishes. Would you still trust the plane manufacturer ?
        theultdev 2y ago
        I see you don't want to answer the question posed either. Noone else has helped Ukraine in this regard. Starlink donates connectivity all the time to many disasters, has anyone else? I remember when many people on this site was saying starlink was going to be useless... You have no right to be critical of how others help, if you aren't helping yourself.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > they already did cut it once They may have. Musk denies it. Kyiv doesn’t, to my knowledge, seem to have pressed it. Can’t quite say it’s not true. But can definitely say it’s not known.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > keyword: could That’s the difference between a threat and an attack.
    - theultdev 2y ago
      No, it's a difference between a hypothetical and reality. The reality is they are currently helping, have been, and noone else has in that same regard. -- edit -- Those articles linked below are about "talks" and proposals. As of now, noone is deployed in Ukraine other than Starlink. Those companies highlighted don't even have the capacity. They are just blowing hot air for publicity. They aren't helping at all, they are just using the situation to advertise. -- edit 2 -- I see, I must have missed that Eurosat was deployed in Ukraine. Albeit in a much more limited form than Starlink. That's good at least one other company has helped. However, you still have to credit SpaceX for enabling the ability to send the satellites up there in the first place :) Sure you could subsidize the competitors, but they'll be sending a huge portion of that to Starlink anyway to launch them.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > reality is they are currently helping and noone else is in the same regard Eutelsat’s OneWeb and Geo are currently providing services in Ukraine [1][2]. Their leadership, meanwhile, isn’t trying to undermine Kyiv at home and abroad. > those articles linked below are about "talks" and proposals Nope. The proposals are for expansion. Eutelsat currently provides service in Ukraine. (Out of curiosity, where did you read that Starlink has a monopoly on satellite internet in Ukraine? Always helpful to keep track of bad sources.) > those companies highlighted don't even have the capacity Sure, Europe fucked up by relying on Musk. Now they have the opportunity to fix it. In the meantime, it’s insanity to divert any resources to Musk that could go to building a competitor, even if heavily subsidised. (U.S. ignoring WTO rules means dumping and state-support rules no longer apply.) [1] https://www.ft.com/content/f4cc04f0-5ccf-44d8-b5c1-f3eebc9cd55b https://www.ft.com/content/f4cc04f0-5ccf-44d8-b5c1-f3eebc9cd... [2] https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/eutelsat-committed-boosting-europes-satellite-autonomy-continued-support-ukraine-2025-03-03/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/eutelsat-committed-...
- goshx 2y ago
  He’s done before, so we can definitely expect something like this.
  - ivewonyoung 2y ago
    Never happened, Starlink wasn't turned off anywhere, it was just bad media reporting and social media bias. He refused to turn on Starlink over Crimea on a last minute request from Ukraine. It'd have meant violating US sanctions on providing services to Russian controlled territory.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > never happened, Starlink wasn't turned off anywhere Based on Musk’s comments, he just kneecapped them in favour of Moscow [1]. Negotiators are currently using Starlink as leverage to Molotov-Ribbentrop Ukraine’s mineral resources [2]. That said, Musk is a liar. So absent a statement from Kyiv absolving him (I honestly haven’t looked for this), the best we can say is we don’t know. [1] https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1699917639043404146?s=46 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1699917639043404146?s=46 [2] https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-access-starlink-internet-services-over-minerals-say-2025-02-22/ https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-acces...
      - pengaru 2y ago
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyrXZHudkXA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyrXZHudkXA
        ben_w 2y ago
        Musk's support of Trump looks increasingly like it will start WW3, with Trump personally threatening action against several current NATO allies. Musk would be correct that private individuals should not have this much power, should not take decisions about what is and isn't legal — which makes it even more hypocritical for him to have had a fight with Brazil or the UK government or offer support for any political party in Germany, let alone to be wielding a chainsaw on-stage at CPAC, being the public face of DOGE, taking his kid into the Oval Office to have a chat with the press, etc.
nsxwolf 2y ago
[flagged]
- cgh 2y ago
  You are normally a quality poster. This kind of thing is beneath you.
  - nsxwolf 2y ago
    About every 1 in 100 posts I just can't help myself.
ohdaaaaam 2y ago
[dead]
code_runner 2y ago
i say this as a tesla owner, knowing that getting rid of my tesla doesn't necessarily help anything..... and having bought my car despite Elon (certainly not because of him) a handful of years back. Tesla's value gives Elon his money which also gives him his power. For obvious reasons Elon is VERY associated with Tesla. People are viewing purchasing a Tesla as giving Elon money, which isn't totally wrong but isn't as direct as people as saying either. In the case of Tesla the threat is Elon himself and how he chooses to use his power. The cars (in my opinion) are not a threat IRT surveillance etc. I think its easy enough to cover the cameras etc. Of course I can be wrong, as I often am. In the case of Starlink.... being able to use communication and internet access during an emergency to make money, or use it for influence is pretty powerful. particularly as the US govt (which Elon is a part of) pivots towards an alliance with Russia, starlink is a massive liability that Ukraine cannot count on AT ALL. Nothing is stopping Elon from pulling access to starlink at the behest of Putin. America is already pausing anti-russian activity IRT cyber attacks etc under the guise of "good faith during active negotiations". Why wouldn't starlink be next? Why can't starlink be used to suppress access to things. Remember the stories about ISPs injecting ads into content that they didn't own? Why can't starlink just start serving propaganda and misinformation instead of actual content? These are a threat because they are not being used for the good of humanity and civilization. Elon has deluded himself into thinking that he knows what is best for the world and is using his power/money/influence/technology to assert those ideas and opinions onto the world. Until we have literally any evidence to the contrary, Elon, Trump, and Putin can all be named interchangeably
- JohnFen 2y ago
  > knowing that getting rid of my tesla doesn't necessarily help anything Getting rid of your Tesla would, at least, eliminate a very sensitive flow of personal data about you to Tesla.
  - code_runner 2y ago
    yeah, i suppose that I haven't personally considered it to be "very personal", but in today's world, I am evaluating stuff pretty frequently.
henriquenunez 2y ago
> How exactly are they a threat to the free world? First by playing 'free market' and getting bilions in incentives from taxpayer money. And then they will be a threat by the time Tesla will lock you into a subscription model and starlink sell your data to the government the first time it will feel threatened. Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor.
henry2023 2y ago
> Starlink is helping Ukraine. The company owned by the dude who wants immediate Ukraine surrender and threatens Ukraine armed forces with disconnecting them? Oh so helpful.
rurp 2y ago
Starlink isn't helping helping Ukraine out of the goodness of Elon's heart; he's being paid millions of dollars to provide a service. It's just another business deal for him that he can spin into good publicity as well. His public comments have made it very clear that he doesn't care about the Ukrainian people. Given that he's co-leading an administration that is completely aligning itself with Putin I don't expect that to continue for much longer. As soon as the payments stop, and possibly even sooner, that service will be gone.
immibis 2y ago
You might remember the reason a bunch of this started is that Starlink would not help Ukraine unless Ukraine agreed not to hurt Russia too much.

closewith 2y ago

Any and all dependence on the US is now a liability to the remaining democracies.

rvnx 2y ago

https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-access-starlink-internet-services-over-minerals-say-2025-02-22/ https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-acces...

theultdev 2y ago
keyword: could but in this reality now they are helping and have been for awhile. articles like those you have linked have always been appearing, but it only highlights how useful starlink has been. what other company has helped provide internet to ukraine?
- rtkwe 2y ago
  They already did cut it once around the Black Sea coast and prevented an attack on some Russian ships in the region. Something that USAID was investigating Starlink for (and I'm sure this next part is a total coincidence /s) and USAID was one of the first targets of the DOGE purges.
  - theultdev 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - rvnx 2y ago
      It's a bit like if someone sells you one jet fighter (Starlink is a paid service). Then, the manufacturer threatens you to disconnect the plane remotely if you don't agree to their absolutely unrelated wishes. Would you still trust the plane manufacturer ?
      - theultdev 2y ago
        I see you don't want to answer the question posed either. Noone else has helped Ukraine in this regard. Starlink donates connectivity all the time to many disasters, has anyone else? I remember when many people on this site was saying starlink was going to be useless... You have no right to be critical of how others help, if you aren't helping yourself.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > they already did cut it once They may have. Musk denies it. Kyiv doesn’t, to my knowledge, seem to have pressed it. Can’t quite say it’s not true. But can definitely say it’s not known.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > keyword: could That’s the difference between a threat and an attack.
  - theultdev 2y ago
    No, it's a difference between a hypothetical and reality. The reality is they are currently helping, have been, and noone else has in that same regard. -- edit -- Those articles linked below are about "talks" and proposals. As of now, noone is deployed in Ukraine other than Starlink. Those companies highlighted don't even have the capacity. They are just blowing hot air for publicity. They aren't helping at all, they are just using the situation to advertise. -- edit 2 -- I see, I must have missed that Eurosat was deployed in Ukraine. Albeit in a much more limited form than Starlink. That's good at least one other company has helped. However, you still have to credit SpaceX for enabling the ability to send the satellites up there in the first place :) Sure you could subsidize the competitors, but they'll be sending a huge portion of that to Starlink anyway to launch them.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > reality is they are currently helping and noone else is in the same regard Eutelsat’s OneWeb and Geo are currently providing services in Ukraine [1][2]. Their leadership, meanwhile, isn’t trying to undermine Kyiv at home and abroad. > those articles linked below are about "talks" and proposals Nope. The proposals are for expansion. Eutelsat currently provides service in Ukraine. (Out of curiosity, where did you read that Starlink has a monopoly on satellite internet in Ukraine? Always helpful to keep track of bad sources.) > those companies highlighted don't even have the capacity Sure, Europe fucked up by relying on Musk. Now they have the opportunity to fix it. In the meantime, it’s insanity to divert any resources to Musk that could go to building a competitor, even if heavily subsidised. (U.S. ignoring WTO rules means dumping and state-support rules no longer apply.) [1] https://www.ft.com/content/f4cc04f0-5ccf-44d8-b5c1-f3eebc9cd55b https://www.ft.com/content/f4cc04f0-5ccf-44d8-b5c1-f3eebc9cd... [2] https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/eutelsat-committed-boosting-europes-satellite-autonomy-continued-support-ukraine-2025-03-03/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/eutelsat-committed-...
goshx 2y ago
He’s done before, so we can definitely expect something like this.
- ivewonyoung 2y ago
  Never happened, Starlink wasn't turned off anywhere, it was just bad media reporting and social media bias. He refused to turn on Starlink over Crimea on a last minute request from Ukraine. It'd have meant violating US sanctions on providing services to Russian controlled territory.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > never happened, Starlink wasn't turned off anywhere Based on Musk’s comments, he just kneecapped them in favour of Moscow [1]. Negotiators are currently using Starlink as leverage to Molotov-Ribbentrop Ukraine’s mineral resources [2]. That said, Musk is a liar. So absent a statement from Kyiv absolving him (I honestly haven’t looked for this), the best we can say is we don’t know. [1] https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1699917639043404146?s=46 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1699917639043404146?s=46 [2] https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-access-starlink-internet-services-over-minerals-say-2025-02-22/ https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-acces...
    - pengaru 2y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyrXZHudkXA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyrXZHudkXA
      - ben_w 2y ago
        Musk's support of Trump looks increasingly like it will start WW3, with Trump personally threatening action against several current NATO allies. Musk would be correct that private individuals should not have this much power, should not take decisions about what is and isn't legal — which makes it even more hypocritical for him to have had a fight with Brazil or the UK government or offer support for any political party in Germany, let alone to be wielding a chainsaw on-stage at CPAC, being the public face of DOGE, taking his kid into the Oval Office to have a chat with the press, etc.

nsxwolf 2y ago

[flagged]

cgh 2y ago
You are normally a quality poster. This kind of thing is beneath you.
- nsxwolf 2y ago
  About every 1 in 100 posts I just can't help myself.

ohdaaaaam 2y ago

[dead]

code_runner 2y ago

i say this as a tesla owner, knowing that getting rid of my tesla doesn't necessarily help anything..... and having bought my car despite Elon (certainly not because of him) a handful of years back. Tesla's value gives Elon his money which also gives him his power. For obvious reasons Elon is VERY associated with Tesla. People are viewing purchasing a Tesla as giving Elon money, which isn't totally wrong but isn't as direct as people as saying either. In the case of Tesla the threat is Elon himself and how he chooses to use his power. The cars (in my opinion) are not a threat IRT surveillance etc. I think its easy enough to cover the cameras etc. Of course I can be wrong, as I often am. In the case of Starlink.... being able to use communication and internet access during an emergency to make money, or use it for influence is pretty powerful. particularly as the US govt (which Elon is a part of) pivots towards an alliance with Russia, starlink is a massive liability that Ukraine cannot count on AT ALL. Nothing is stopping Elon from pulling access to starlink at the behest of Putin. America is already pausing anti-russian activity IRT cyber attacks etc under the guise of "good faith during active negotiations". Why wouldn't starlink be next? Why can't starlink be used to suppress access to things. Remember the stories about ISPs injecting ads into content that they didn't own? Why can't starlink just start serving propaganda and misinformation instead of actual content? These are a threat because they are not being used for the good of humanity and civilization. Elon has deluded himself into thinking that he knows what is best for the world and is using his power/money/influence/technology to assert those ideas and opinions onto the world. Until we have literally any evidence to the contrary, Elon, Trump, and Putin can all be named interchangeably

JohnFen 2y ago
> knowing that getting rid of my tesla doesn't necessarily help anything Getting rid of your Tesla would, at least, eliminate a very sensitive flow of personal data about you to Tesla.
- code_runner 2y ago
  yeah, i suppose that I haven't personally considered it to be "very personal", but in today's world, I am evaluating stuff pretty frequently.

henriquenunez 2y ago

> How exactly are they a threat to the free world? First by playing 'free market' and getting bilions in incentives from taxpayer money. And then they will be a threat by the time Tesla will lock you into a subscription model and starlink sell your data to the government the first time it will feel threatened. Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor.

henry2023 2y ago

> Starlink is helping Ukraine. The company owned by the dude who wants immediate Ukraine surrender and threatens Ukraine armed forces with disconnecting them? Oh so helpful.

rurp 2y ago

Starlink isn't helping helping Ukraine out of the goodness of Elon's heart; he's being paid millions of dollars to provide a service. It's just another business deal for him that he can spin into good publicity as well. His public comments have made it very clear that he doesn't care about the Ukrainian people. Given that he's co-leading an administration that is completely aligning itself with Putin I don't expect that to continue for much longer. As soon as the payments stop, and possibly even sooner, that service will be gone.

immibis 2y ago

You might remember the reason a bunch of this started is that Starlink would not help Ukraine unless Ukraine agreed not to hurt Russia too much.