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People would say Budapest Memorandum give Ukraine the rights to its 2,000 Soviet nuclear weapons. That's not what it said. People would say that the same memor

People would say Budapest Memorandum give Ukraine the rights to its 2,000 Soviet nuclear weapons. That's not what it said. People would say that the same memorandum says Ukraine security is absolute. Not that either. People would say in 2014, US installed new Ukraine government via propaganda. Looks dubious too. People would say Ukraine shut down 11+ political parties who opposed current Ukraine government; some parties were funded by Russia. That part remains true. Newspaper and TV in Ukraine were nationalized partially with money by USAID, that was uncovered by US DOGE. Elections were "suspended" in Ukraine. Last May 2024 was supposed to have a nationwide election. Definitely true. Seems like Ukraine is following US foreign policy that led to demise of dictators like Mossadegh, Árbenz, Diệm, Noriega, Qadaffi, Saddam. Is Zelensky a dictator now?

Justsignedup 2y ago
Just so you know. The Ukranian constitution states no elections during war. All political opponents have come out and said we will hold elections after victory. Nobody is against postponement. Ukraine has had healthy consistent elections since the Russian backed government was booted out.
- egberts1 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - skeletal88 2y ago
    What, no. I guess he would rather do something else than be a wartime president. trump should call putin a dictator, because.. he obviously is, but for some reason he chose to attack Zelensky instead. How can there be elections when there are millions of people displaced, there are large parts of the country occupied and huge part of the population is on the front defending the country. This "dictator" stuff is just straight russian propaganda, that americans have been swallowing up because someone told trump it was true.
  - openasocket 2y ago
    How do you intend to conduct an election during an active war when 20% of the country, over 3 million Ukrainians, are under Russian occupation? Do they just not get to vote?
    - ImJamal 2y ago
      Plenty of countries have held elections during war, including war in their country. The US (civil war), Iraq and Afghanistan during the US occupation, Japan (WW2), etc. I know it can be a challenge, but it has been done.
      - ModernMech 2y ago
        Why does it have to be done? I haven't read the Constitution, but if what the other poster says is true about it saying that elections cannot be held during war, then isn't that the end of it?
        ImJamal 2y ago
        The Ukrainian constitution does not allow elections during war, but that is not what I was responding to. The post I was replying to was asking how an election could be held during a war. I was just pointing out that it has been done in the 1800s, 1900s, and 2000s.
        openasocket 2y ago
        My question wasn't rhetorical, I wasn't doubting that it was possible. I am genuinely asking how OP believes these elections should be conducted. We've got over 3 million Ukrainians living under Russian occupation, I don't see a way to feasibly give them a vote. 6 million Ukrainians are refugees living in other countries. You could try some sort of remote voting for them, but there would be logistical difficulties. That might be possible for the national voting, but what about local election? Would they vote for candidates in their last known address? Or just not get a vote on that? 8 million are refugees living within Ukraine. Same question for them about local elections. My point is that, ironically, insisting on elections now, DEPENDING ON HOW IT IS IMPLEMENTED, may actually not be the most democratic thing to do. So before I take can take a position on the matter, I would need to know the implementation details.
  - myvoiceismypass 2y ago
    > But curious, is Zelensky using the pretense of war to stay in power? See this from just a week ago: "Zelenskyy offers to resign in exchange for peace, NATO entry" https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-offer-resign-exchange-ukraine-nato-membership/ https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-offer-re...
    - egberts1 2y ago
      It is a challenge to conduct an election during war. Never forget: 1) Zelensky sat quietly while Democrats tried to impeach Trump the first time. Zelensky alone could have put an end to that sham impeachment. 2) Zelensky actively campaign against Donald Trump for the Democrats. 3) One of Zelinsky’s radicalized zealots tried to kill Donald Trump. Then Zelensky reneges on the mineral deal because it doesn’t continue the money laundering proxy war the Democrats and RINO war whores started. At some point, people might wake up and realize Zelensky is not a good guy. Maybe.
      - ModernMech 2y ago
        > 1) Zelensky sat quietly while Democrats tried to impeach Trump the first time. Zelensky alone could have put an end to that sham impeachment. Trump didn't deny the conduct, and it was proven during impeachment. His defense wasn't that he didn't do it, it was that he had the right to do it. Zelensky couldn't have cleared anything up because the facts were not under dispute.
      - tristan957 2y ago
        What exactly was a sham about Trump's multiple impeachments?
        egberts1 2y ago
        That people still vote for him. Either it was a sham or it was a sham lawfare.
        tristan957 2y ago
- jstrebel 2y ago
  Well that's right, but only the currently elected parliament is allowed to stay during war times, not the president. So you cannot have elections, but the president cannot simply stay in power without them.

Justsignedup 2y ago

Just so you know. The Ukranian constitution states no elections during war. All political opponents have come out and said we will hold elections after victory. Nobody is against postponement. Ukraine has had healthy consistent elections since the Russian backed government was booted out.

egberts1 2y ago
[flagged]
- skeletal88 2y ago
  What, no. I guess he would rather do something else than be a wartime president. trump should call putin a dictator, because.. he obviously is, but for some reason he chose to attack Zelensky instead. How can there be elections when there are millions of people displaced, there are large parts of the country occupied and huge part of the population is on the front defending the country. This "dictator" stuff is just straight russian propaganda, that americans have been swallowing up because someone told trump it was true.
- openasocket 2y ago
  How do you intend to conduct an election during an active war when 20% of the country, over 3 million Ukrainians, are under Russian occupation? Do they just not get to vote?
  - ImJamal 2y ago
    Plenty of countries have held elections during war, including war in their country. The US (civil war), Iraq and Afghanistan during the US occupation, Japan (WW2), etc. I know it can be a challenge, but it has been done.
    - ModernMech 2y ago
      Why does it have to be done? I haven't read the Constitution, but if what the other poster says is true about it saying that elections cannot be held during war, then isn't that the end of it?
      - ImJamal 2y ago
        The Ukrainian constitution does not allow elections during war, but that is not what I was responding to. The post I was replying to was asking how an election could be held during a war. I was just pointing out that it has been done in the 1800s, 1900s, and 2000s.
        openasocket 2y ago
        My question wasn't rhetorical, I wasn't doubting that it was possible. I am genuinely asking how OP believes these elections should be conducted. We've got over 3 million Ukrainians living under Russian occupation, I don't see a way to feasibly give them a vote. 6 million Ukrainians are refugees living in other countries. You could try some sort of remote voting for them, but there would be logistical difficulties. That might be possible for the national voting, but what about local election? Would they vote for candidates in their last known address? Or just not get a vote on that? 8 million are refugees living within Ukraine. Same question for them about local elections. My point is that, ironically, insisting on elections now, DEPENDING ON HOW IT IS IMPLEMENTED, may actually not be the most democratic thing to do. So before I take can take a position on the matter, I would need to know the implementation details.
- myvoiceismypass 2y ago
  > But curious, is Zelensky using the pretense of war to stay in power? See this from just a week ago: "Zelenskyy offers to resign in exchange for peace, NATO entry" https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-offer-resign-exchange-ukraine-nato-membership/ https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-offer-re...
  - egberts1 2y ago
    It is a challenge to conduct an election during war. Never forget: 1) Zelensky sat quietly while Democrats tried to impeach Trump the first time. Zelensky alone could have put an end to that sham impeachment. 2) Zelensky actively campaign against Donald Trump for the Democrats. 3) One of Zelinsky’s radicalized zealots tried to kill Donald Trump. Then Zelensky reneges on the mineral deal because it doesn’t continue the money laundering proxy war the Democrats and RINO war whores started. At some point, people might wake up and realize Zelensky is not a good guy. Maybe.
    - ModernMech 2y ago
      > 1) Zelensky sat quietly while Democrats tried to impeach Trump the first time. Zelensky alone could have put an end to that sham impeachment. Trump didn't deny the conduct, and it was proven during impeachment. His defense wasn't that he didn't do it, it was that he had the right to do it. Zelensky couldn't have cleared anything up because the facts were not under dispute.
    - tristan957 2y ago
      What exactly was a sham about Trump's multiple impeachments?
      - egberts1 2y ago
        That people still vote for him. Either it was a sham or it was a sham lawfare.
        tristan957 2y ago
jstrebel 2y ago
Well that's right, but only the currently elected parliament is allowed to stay during war times, not the president. So you cannot have elections, but the president cannot simply stay in power without them.