4 ms·

the Netherlands has nukes in loan from the US. They are at Volkel Airbase. Officially it's a secret, but it's common knowledge and was also confirmed by a forme

the Netherlands has nukes in loan from the US. They are at Volkel Airbase. Officially it's a secret, but it's common knowledge and was also confirmed by a former prime-minister. In exchange for these loaned nuclear weapons the Netherlands promised not to develop nuclear weapons of their own. With the US now showing they are not afraid of doing a "rug pull" on agreements, one starts to wonder if the Netherlands shouldn't start development of nuclear weapons again. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkel_Air_Base https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkel_Air_Base

lifeinthevoid 2y ago
Are the Netherlands able to control these devices? I would be very surprised if that were the case.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Codes are not given and are only in America.
  - pavlov 2y ago
    Since DOGE has wrecked any semblance of data security in the US government, we can assume the codes are also in Moscow by now.
    - speed_spread 2y ago
      Was DOGE able to affect the Pentagon or three-lettered security agencies yet? I would assume anything defense-related is kept separate from civilian government structures and may not be as collapsible. Some may even have internal plans to defend against a take over from the top.
  - gpderetta 2y ago
    The code is 00000000 anyway!
- mordae 2y ago
  Could always dismantle and repurpose.
snowwrestler 2y ago
Yes, when Trump complains about NATO most people hear dollars, tanks, and planes, but European leaders hear the nuclear deterrent. This is one reason Britain and France are out front right now on matters of European security.
lqet 2y ago
> With the US now showing they are not afraid of doing a "rug pull" on agreements, one starts to wonder if the Netherlands shouldn't start development of nuclear weapons again. This discussion is already looming in Germany, especially now that Elon Musk openly wants the US to leave NATO. There is a standing offer by Macron for Germany to go under French nuclear protection. The UK also appears to be more than willing to fill in the nuclear vacuum left by the US. If things continue the path of the last 2-3 weeks, I am sure that at some point there will be a discussion about whether Germany should prepare to be able to at least build nuclear weapons quickly. I have a feeling that Canada has similar thoughts. I wonder what would happen if they started developing nuclear weapons. The US president already announced he would make Canada the 51st state, and around 25% of Canadians saw the US as an enemy country 2 weeks ago [0] Strategically, it does not make any sense to me. I am pretty sure that the Russians are just as confused. I wonder if there is a historic precedent of a country giving up a functioning empire voluntarily, without any internal or external pressure to do so. [0] https://www.newsweek.com/canada-us-relations-enemy-poll-tariffs-2034766 https://www.newsweek.com/canada-us-relations-enemy-poll-tari...
- speed_spread 2y ago
  Canada has been refused nuclear submarines by the US which are an absolute necessity to patrol the Canadian arctic. But the US also decided Australia should get American nuclear subs and cancel their order of French nuclear subs. I believe the French would be more than happy to build a few subs for their Western NATO friends for a reasonable price.
- Bayart 2y ago
  I don't see proliferation in Europe as realistic politically. Europeanising the French program is what makes the most sense in that regard.
  - lqet 2y ago
    There is a lot of planning going on now in Europe, both on international (EU, UK) and national level, that would've been politically impossible just a few months ago.
koonsolo 2y ago
Belgium is the same, and I don't know about you, but F16's and F35's are the only ones that can carry those bombs. That's why Belgium ordered a bunch of them and not some European planes. It's too late to cancel now, but I guess in the future we will have to reconsider the true value of these bombs and airplanes. Once we really need them, US might "force us into peace".
mpweiher 2y ago
These are not "on loan". They are stationed in the Netherlands. They are fully under US operational control. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing
jcalx 2y ago
> it's common knowledge and was also confirmed by a former prime-minister And also, inexplicably, via (formerly) publicly viewable Chegg flashcards (???): https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expose-nuclear-weapons-secrets-via-flashcard-apps/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expos...
briandear 2y ago
The Netherlands also has elections.

lifeinthevoid 2y ago

Are the Netherlands able to control these devices? I would be very surprised if that were the case.

throwaway48476 2y ago
Codes are not given and are only in America.
- pavlov 2y ago
  Since DOGE has wrecked any semblance of data security in the US government, we can assume the codes are also in Moscow by now.
  - speed_spread 2y ago
    Was DOGE able to affect the Pentagon or three-lettered security agencies yet? I would assume anything defense-related is kept separate from civilian government structures and may not be as collapsible. Some may even have internal plans to defend against a take over from the top.
- gpderetta 2y ago
  The code is 00000000 anyway!
mordae 2y ago
Could always dismantle and repurpose.

snowwrestler 2y ago

Yes, when Trump complains about NATO most people hear dollars, tanks, and planes, but European leaders hear the nuclear deterrent. This is one reason Britain and France are out front right now on matters of European security.

lqet 2y ago

> With the US now showing they are not afraid of doing a "rug pull" on agreements, one starts to wonder if the Netherlands shouldn't start development of nuclear weapons again. This discussion is already looming in Germany, especially now that Elon Musk openly wants the US to leave NATO. There is a standing offer by Macron for Germany to go under French nuclear protection. The UK also appears to be more than willing to fill in the nuclear vacuum left by the US. If things continue the path of the last 2-3 weeks, I am sure that at some point there will be a discussion about whether Germany should prepare to be able to at least build nuclear weapons quickly. I have a feeling that Canada has similar thoughts. I wonder what would happen if they started developing nuclear weapons. The US president already announced he would make Canada the 51st state, and around 25% of Canadians saw the US as an enemy country 2 weeks ago [0] Strategically, it does not make any sense to me. I am pretty sure that the Russians are just as confused. I wonder if there is a historic precedent of a country giving up a functioning empire voluntarily, without any internal or external pressure to do so. [0] https://www.newsweek.com/canada-us-relations-enemy-poll-tariffs-2034766 https://www.newsweek.com/canada-us-relations-enemy-poll-tari...

speed_spread 2y ago
Canada has been refused nuclear submarines by the US which are an absolute necessity to patrol the Canadian arctic. But the US also decided Australia should get American nuclear subs and cancel their order of French nuclear subs. I believe the French would be more than happy to build a few subs for their Western NATO friends for a reasonable price.
Bayart 2y ago
I don't see proliferation in Europe as realistic politically. Europeanising the French program is what makes the most sense in that regard.
- lqet 2y ago
  There is a lot of planning going on now in Europe, both on international (EU, UK) and national level, that would've been politically impossible just a few months ago.

koonsolo 2y ago

Belgium is the same, and I don't know about you, but F16's and F35's are the only ones that can carry those bombs. That's why Belgium ordered a bunch of them and not some European planes. It's too late to cancel now, but I guess in the future we will have to reconsider the true value of these bombs and airplanes. Once we really need them, US might "force us into peace".

mpweiher 2y ago

These are not "on loan". They are stationed in the Netherlands. They are fully under US operational control. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

jcalx 2y ago

> it's common knowledge and was also confirmed by a former prime-minister And also, inexplicably, via (formerly) publicly viewable Chegg flashcards (???): https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expose-nuclear-weapons-secrets-via-flashcard-apps/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/05/28/us-soldiers-expos...

briandear 2y ago

The Netherlands also has elections.