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While CNN's assertion that Russia's economy is on par with Italy's in nominal GDP may be technically accurate, it does not fully consider the economic nuances t

While CNN's assertion that Russia's economy is on par with Italy's in nominal GDP may be technically accurate, it does not fully consider the economic nuances that are crucial to a comprehensive analysis. This is an example of propaganda.

Hnrobert42 2y ago
I don't understand why you are so animated by this issue. What am I missing? Propaganda about what?
mpweiher 2y ago
Well, if it is [technically] correct, then it's obviously not "propaganda", but simply the truth. Now you obviously can argue that there should be other considerations, but that is your argument and interpretation, not the obvious truth that the actual data needs to be judged against.
- echoangle 2y ago
  Just to be pedantic, propaganda doesn't have to be false.
  - mpweiher 2y ago
    "The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause." Citing a correct fact about the world is not propaganda, as facts are neither doctrine nor "reflect views".
    - echoangle 2y ago
      You can cite facts to provoke an emotional response and make people sympathetic to your ideology. That's propaganda. > Citing a correct fact about the world is not propaganda, as facts are neither doctrine nor "reflect views". It says "propagation of doctrine" and facts can be used to propagate a doctrine. Edit: Here's a definition from Wikipedia: > NATO's 2011 guidance for military public affairs defines propaganda as "information, ideas, doctrines, or special appeals disseminated to influence the opinion, emotions, attitudes, or behaviour of any specified group in order to benefit the sponsor, either directly or indirectly". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Definitions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Definitions Does that sound like the information has to be false to be propaganda?
      - mpweiher 2y ago
        I didn't say that.
        echoangle 2y ago
        > Well, if it is [technically] correct, then it's obviously not "propaganda", but simply the truth. What does that mean? Claim is correct => Claim is not propaganda Also means Claim is propaganda => Claim can not be correct
dahart 2y ago
The WP link shows sourced data from the IMF and World Bank. Why did you respond to that with an unsourced claim this is CNN’s assertion? The GDP ranking involves all countries. So whose propaganda is it, and what’s the motivation? If it’s technically accurate that Italy ranks above Russia by GDP then what’s the basis for calling it propaganda? Typically propaganda is nationalistic and spreading false information within a country and being used to justify a country’s moves against another, not international verifiable facts that are technically accurate and not being used to justify some action. GDP is a single summary metric, not a comprehensive analysis. It’s entirely possible that Russia’s and Italy’s rankings could swap when using a different economic metric. That certainly doesn’t mean GDP rankings are propaganda.

Hnrobert42 2y ago

I don't understand why you are so animated by this issue. What am I missing? Propaganda about what?

mpweiher 2y ago

Well, if it is [technically] correct, then it's obviously not "propaganda", but simply the truth. Now you obviously can argue that there should be other considerations, but that is your argument and interpretation, not the obvious truth that the actual data needs to be judged against.

echoangle 2y ago
Just to be pedantic, propaganda doesn't have to be false.
- mpweiher 2y ago
  "The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause." Citing a correct fact about the world is not propaganda, as facts are neither doctrine nor "reflect views".
  - echoangle 2y ago
    You can cite facts to provoke an emotional response and make people sympathetic to your ideology. That's propaganda. > Citing a correct fact about the world is not propaganda, as facts are neither doctrine nor "reflect views". It says "propagation of doctrine" and facts can be used to propagate a doctrine. Edit: Here's a definition from Wikipedia: > NATO's 2011 guidance for military public affairs defines propaganda as "information, ideas, doctrines, or special appeals disseminated to influence the opinion, emotions, attitudes, or behaviour of any specified group in order to benefit the sponsor, either directly or indirectly". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Definitions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Definitions Does that sound like the information has to be false to be propaganda?
    - mpweiher 2y ago
      I didn't say that.
      - echoangle 2y ago
        > Well, if it is [technically] correct, then it's obviously not "propaganda", but simply the truth. What does that mean? Claim is correct => Claim is not propaganda Also means Claim is propaganda => Claim can not be correct

dahart 2y ago

The WP link shows sourced data from the IMF and World Bank. Why did you respond to that with an unsourced claim this is CNN’s assertion? The GDP ranking involves all countries. So whose propaganda is it, and what’s the motivation? If it’s technically accurate that Italy ranks above Russia by GDP then what’s the basis for calling it propaganda? Typically propaganda is nationalistic and spreading false information within a country and being used to justify a country’s moves against another, not international verifiable facts that are technically accurate and not being used to justify some action. GDP is a single summary metric, not a comprehensive analysis. It’s entirely possible that Russia’s and Italy’s rankings could swap when using a different economic metric. That certainly doesn’t mean GDP rankings are propaganda.