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In the year ending June 2024 the net migration into the UK was 728,000. That is the root cause. The government (and this hasn't started with the current govern

In the year ending June 2024 the net migration into the UK was 728,000. That is the root cause. The government (and this hasn't started with the current government) has a policy of high immigration then makes noise about the need of doing more to solve the "housing crisis"...

rickdeckard 2y ago
Coincidentally that's also roughly the birth-rate of the UK 20 years prior (2004: 715,996 [0]), a group of people I assume also arrived on the housing-market by now. The population (and this hasn't started with the current population) has a tendency to shag around and then make noise about the need of housing (and food, and education, and...) [0] https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/annualbirthratesfrom2000to2016 https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/fre...
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  Except that with immigration you add adults and families that need housing as soon as they get into the country. Additionally the birth rate has now been below replacement rate for long enough that population would start to decrease without immigration (and the need for housing would obviously decrease with it). I can't understand this disparaging stance against anyone who brings the issue of immigration up. It is at the highest level on record and the only cause of increasing population but, no the only issue is that we should build more apparently. And we should also do that while saving the climate and the environment. There are many contradictions and cognitive dissonance here... And the way my comment is shut down is very telling of that.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - intended 2y ago
    UK real estate issues are the same as real estate issues globally. All the major metros have somehow become a single real estate market. London, NY, Tokyo. The real estate properties being made are the ones which generate profit, which happen to be for people with ‘large’ amounts of wealth. Basically - you can worry about immigrants as much as you like, there still wont be affordable housing. It’s not profitable. (Terms and conditions apply)
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
optimalsolver 2y ago
UK's birth rate is 1.44. Someone is going to have to pay for your upkeep in old age. Most political problems of today stem from the fact that politicians are unwilling to explain this basic fact to their none-too-bright constituents. Reality is reality. This is why the fascist-lite Italian PM actually increased immigration from Africa after assuming office and taking one look at the numbers.
- cbeach 2y ago
  Lucky then, that immigrants don't age. Otherwise you'd be turning your country into one hell of a demographic Ponzi Scheme...
  - close04 2y ago
    The are a few more things in the equation. Median age in the UK is ~40 while most immigration is from countries with medians in their 20s. Those families are more likely to have more children especially if they reach a stable and comfortable living situation. So it can be a Ponzi scheme but it can also be an investment.
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      It is a Ponzi scheme. The Ponzi scheme is that population has to grow forever, which is not sutainable and not possible, and coming to an end globally. So high immigration now is just kicking the ball down the road while destroying your local culture and people in the process.
      - hermitcrab 2y ago
        "local culture and people" are still very much still alive in the South West of England, where I live.
      - close04 2y ago
        If this is the reference for the definition of a Ponzi scheme then the pension system in general is a Ponzi scheme by design and immigration is not "turning" it into one like OP said. But I don't really agree this is the appropriate equivalent at least for the "spirit" of a Ponzi scheme. A pyramid scheme exists only when a pyramid is disguised as something else. When it's designed and presented as an actual pyramid it's not a scheme. In the design of the pension system there's no intention of fraud involved (only lack of education maybe), and the system is constantly and very transparently adjusted to widen the pyramid base and narrow the top (increase retirement age, contributor base, or individual contribution).
walthamstow 2y ago
The root cause of there not being enough homes is our failure to build enough homes, decade after decade. France has over 4 million more homes available than the UK, as stated in the report linked in TFA. > With almost identical population sizes, the UK has under 30 million homes, while France has around 37 million. 800,000 British families have second homes compared to 3.4 million French families.
geye1234 2y ago
You are correct. Immigration exploded under Blair, and exploded again (from its previous high) under Johnson. That is the root cause of the housing crisis. Look at how many people in their 20s were able to buy homes in the 1990s, then look at immigration levels in that decade. You and the other person who pointed this out got downvoted. As you say, it's forbidden to bring this up. But it's true. Immigration has benefited the very wealthy and upper-middle classes while screwing the middle- and working-classes.
- glenstein 2y ago
  I think it's the same issue as with deficits. The issue isn't that it's a forbidden subject but that people are put off by arguments that don't fully address the causality. With deficits it's not just spending but also how much revenue you're raising which is instrumental to understanding the problem, and anyone who tries to tell you it's only one or the other is not a reliable narrator. It is similarly the case that access to housing has every bit as much to do with housing policy as it has to do with population dynamics. >Immigration has benefited the very wealthy and upper-middle classes A great reason to make more housing and to make housing more accessible to lower and middle classes. Your comment was so rich with pro housing policy subtext that I just want to bring that to the foreground.
- intended 2y ago
  The article itself points out that this isn’t the cause of the crisis, and that the misunderstanding of the crisis results in this exact argument. However, the emotional aspect of this question is what needs to be addressed. Britain is leaving its citizens out to dry. Well - you need to get with your legislators and more importantly neighbours and decide that you are ok with new housing being built, which ISNT for the rich, very rich, and super rich. Actual middle class housing. You need a boom in construction to start dealing with the fact that there isn’t enough affordable housing available. Hopefully that will give the UK enough to restart its growth, and then tackle the issue of railways.

rickdeckard 2y ago

Coincidentally that's also roughly the birth-rate of the UK 20 years prior (2004: 715,996 [0]), a group of people I assume also arrived on the housing-market by now. The population (and this hasn't started with the current population) has a tendency to shag around and then make noise about the need of housing (and food, and education, and...) [0] https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/annualbirthratesfrom2000to2016 https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/fre...

mytailorisrich 2y ago
Except that with immigration you add adults and families that need housing as soon as they get into the country. Additionally the birth rate has now been below replacement rate for long enough that population would start to decrease without immigration (and the need for housing would obviously decrease with it). I can't understand this disparaging stance against anyone who brings the issue of immigration up. It is at the highest level on record and the only cause of increasing population but, no the only issue is that we should build more apparently. And we should also do that while saving the climate and the environment. There are many contradictions and cognitive dissonance here... And the way my comment is shut down is very telling of that.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- intended 2y ago
  UK real estate issues are the same as real estate issues globally. All the major metros have somehow become a single real estate market. London, NY, Tokyo. The real estate properties being made are the ones which generate profit, which happen to be for people with ‘large’ amounts of wealth. Basically - you can worry about immigrants as much as you like, there still wont be affordable housing. It’s not profitable. (Terms and conditions apply)

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

optimalsolver 2y ago

UK's birth rate is 1.44. Someone is going to have to pay for your upkeep in old age. Most political problems of today stem from the fact that politicians are unwilling to explain this basic fact to their none-too-bright constituents. Reality is reality. This is why the fascist-lite Italian PM actually increased immigration from Africa after assuming office and taking one look at the numbers.

cbeach 2y ago
Lucky then, that immigrants don't age. Otherwise you'd be turning your country into one hell of a demographic Ponzi Scheme...
- close04 2y ago
  The are a few more things in the equation. Median age in the UK is ~40 while most immigration is from countries with medians in their 20s. Those families are more likely to have more children especially if they reach a stable and comfortable living situation. So it can be a Ponzi scheme but it can also be an investment.
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    It is a Ponzi scheme. The Ponzi scheme is that population has to grow forever, which is not sutainable and not possible, and coming to an end globally. So high immigration now is just kicking the ball down the road while destroying your local culture and people in the process.
    - hermitcrab 2y ago
      "local culture and people" are still very much still alive in the South West of England, where I live.
    - close04 2y ago
      If this is the reference for the definition of a Ponzi scheme then the pension system in general is a Ponzi scheme by design and immigration is not "turning" it into one like OP said. But I don't really agree this is the appropriate equivalent at least for the "spirit" of a Ponzi scheme. A pyramid scheme exists only when a pyramid is disguised as something else. When it's designed and presented as an actual pyramid it's not a scheme. In the design of the pension system there's no intention of fraud involved (only lack of education maybe), and the system is constantly and very transparently adjusted to widen the pyramid base and narrow the top (increase retirement age, contributor base, or individual contribution).

walthamstow 2y ago

The root cause of there not being enough homes is our failure to build enough homes, decade after decade. France has over 4 million more homes available than the UK, as stated in the report linked in TFA. > With almost identical population sizes, the UK has under 30 million homes, while France has around 37 million. 800,000 British families have second homes compared to 3.4 million French families.

geye1234 2y ago

You are correct. Immigration exploded under Blair, and exploded again (from its previous high) under Johnson. That is the root cause of the housing crisis. Look at how many people in their 20s were able to buy homes in the 1990s, then look at immigration levels in that decade. You and the other person who pointed this out got downvoted. As you say, it's forbidden to bring this up. But it's true. Immigration has benefited the very wealthy and upper-middle classes while screwing the middle- and working-classes.

glenstein 2y ago
I think it's the same issue as with deficits. The issue isn't that it's a forbidden subject but that people are put off by arguments that don't fully address the causality. With deficits it's not just spending but also how much revenue you're raising which is instrumental to understanding the problem, and anyone who tries to tell you it's only one or the other is not a reliable narrator. It is similarly the case that access to housing has every bit as much to do with housing policy as it has to do with population dynamics. >Immigration has benefited the very wealthy and upper-middle classes A great reason to make more housing and to make housing more accessible to lower and middle classes. Your comment was so rich with pro housing policy subtext that I just want to bring that to the foreground.
intended 2y ago
The article itself points out that this isn’t the cause of the crisis, and that the misunderstanding of the crisis results in this exact argument. However, the emotional aspect of this question is what needs to be addressed. Britain is leaving its citizens out to dry. Well - you need to get with your legislators and more importantly neighbours and decide that you are ok with new housing being built, which ISNT for the rich, very rich, and super rich. Actual middle class housing. You need a boom in construction to start dealing with the fact that there isn’t enough affordable housing available. Hopefully that will give the UK enough to restart its growth, and then tackle the issue of railways.