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> From China’s perspective, the cost of war is much higher than the cost of developing these chips themselves. For China it’s not about the chips. It’s about g
by huijzer 2y ago
> From China’s perspective, the cost of war is much higher than the cost of developing these chips themselves.
For China it’s not about the chips. It’s about getting rid of the humiliation that is having a small island, that was originally part of China, not be a part of China.
- cookiemonsieur 2y ago[flagged]
- sealeck 2y agoThere's only the small issue that the people who live there don't want to be Chinese!
- fankt 2y agoTaiwanese can decide to be more "Chinese" or not via votes. That's the main difference between Taiwan and China.
- inglor_cz 2y agoIs Ireland historically and culturally British? Sort of. Is Czechia historically and culturally German? Sort of. Is Ukraine historically and culturally Russian? Sort of. Is Pakistan historically and culturally Indian? Sort of. Once you have to ignore the wishes of the population and resort to historical arguments, forced reunification becomes a conquest. I certainly wouldn't like my own government to start expansive wars into, say, Silesia, because it used to belong to the Czech crown for 500 years. But I have a say in this. The Chinese population might not.
- cookiemonsieur 2y agoKeep that same energy with israel then.
- inglor_cz 2y agoNo problem. Neither of the current populations in Israel should have the right to ethnically cleanse the other one, regardless of historic demography in 1900 AD or 1 AD.
- raducu 2y agoI bet you're located in the USA? Because nowhere else in the world would anyone even think that somehow logic, sanity and common sense should be suspended just because Israel is mentioned in a conversation.
- alephnan 2y ago> I bet you're located in the USA? Because nowhere else in the world CCP and internet police are much more likely to use this logic than anti-Israel Americans. If they were, in fact, an American that was anti-Israel, they wouldn't be so riled up about defending the CCP first and foremost. I'm reminded of the island of Truth Teller and Liar problem: https://sites.millersville.edu/bikenaga/math-proof/truth-teller-or-liar/truth-teller-or-liar.html https://sites.millersville.edu/bikenaga/math-proof/truth-tel...
- raducu 2y ago> an American that was anti-Israel. My argument had nothing to do with pro or anti-Israel, I was just point out that I've only encountered this archiemedean lever/pivot point namely "Israel" in the USA. It usually goes exactly like in this thread -- someone saying common sense things like not re-drawing borders and killing other humans today, just because something someone did 100 years ago -- and someone, from the opposite side (nothing to do with Israel) asks if this applies to Israel as well -- because they know damn well it applies to Israel and the point either puts Israel in a bad light or Israel would not like that particular point. At this point if someone asks if "does this apply to Israel" it's usually the bad guys trying to use Israel's name as a logical nuclear weapon.
- immibis 2y ago
- fvv 2y agowhy don't let taiwan decide if they want to be ruled by ccp instead ?
- jonkoops 2y agoConsidering they are one of the most democratic countries in the world (as per The Economist Democracy Index), even outranking the United States, I think they are more than capable of determining themselves what their future should be through their right of self-determination.
- cycomanic 2y agoIf we want to argue historically, is it not more that the Taiwanese government is a more direct successor of the historical China? So maybe China should really be part of Taiwan? Or should it belong back to the Japanese? Just goes to show how ridiculous arguments by "history" are.
- XorNot 2y ago"history" is what's trotted out when the right of self-determination needs to be ignored. As though a people have no right to change their minds about their affiliation or government.
- UltraSane 2y agoThen China very much is the intruder in Tibet.
- alephnan 2y agoWith that line of reasoning, you'll justify the CCP when they invade Vietnam after it's done with Taiwan. Free Tibet first.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 3D30497420 2y agoAnd also a vibrant democracy, potentially serving as an example (foreign and domestic) that alternative political systems are an option and perhaps even desirable. I have a strong impression there are similarities with Russia and Ukraine. Having a neighbor with a similar culture and overlapping histories that also has independent, democratic government was likely viewed as a direct threat to the Putin regime and one of the driving reasons for the invasion. I could see a similar calculation with Taiwan/China.
- netsharc 2y agoYeah, I subscribe to your theory too. It's odd how Putin and his defenders spout all sorts of theories about the evil of NATO and "the West", but if you (addressing the dictators here) have faith in your arguments, why suppress viewpoints that disagree with yours, with media company closures, network firewalls and threats of years in the gulag?
- ikurei 2y agoBecause their argument, in which they do have faith, is that a cacophony of disagreeing viewpoints casting doubts on the common national project is hurtful, even if those doubts are unfounded and those viewpoints unsubstantiated. I'm not defending autoritarianism or communism, but I think you're just not putting yourself in their shoes and looking at things from their POV. They supress other viewpoints not because they're afraid to be shown wrong, but because they believe it's best to supress them and not have people confused by enemy missinformation. (Not an expert, but this is my impression from talking to both chinese and vietnamese people who defend or at least don't oppose their communist governments, and also spanish autoritarians who defend the Francoist regime. I used to think they were brainwashed/dumb/evil, and now I think their worldview makes a bit of sense, even if it's still misguided.)
- kelipso 2y agoOne of the reasons for the collapse of the USSR was that the propaganda done by the US was better than the propaganda done by the Soviets. So it's not like there isn't a historical reason for this either.
- bloomingkales 2y agoNever underestimate the power of saving face. The Taiwan invasion had a dry run with how they handled Hong Kong. This is going to happen and my guess is it will be on Trump’s way out. That way it all gets done during the 2028 election season, and all the next President can do is pout. It’s a win-win for Trump because he keeps China at bay for three years, which is good enough for him.
- chmod775 2y agoHow are Taiwan and Hong Kong at all comparable? Hong Kong never had their own military, was never an independent nation, and was officially handed over from Britain to China in 1997. There was no armed invasion of Hong Kong - Chinese military was already garrisoned there for 25 years.
- ozmodiar 2y agoThere are, or were, talks in Taiwan and China about the possibility of a "one party two systems" style unification similar to Hong Kong. It was pretty fringe but growing in popularity until China cracked down on Hong Kong. I don't know if it's much of a thing anymore, but I do know a couple of old Taiwanese that still believe in it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jonkoops 2y agoA 'small' island with one of the most successful and thriving democracies in the East, that has world class industry. China cannot have a successful democracy on their doorstep, it undermines their perception of absolute Chinese superiority.
- UltraSane 2y agoThis seems like one of Putin's motivations for invading Ukraine. He couldn't stand having a prosperous Ukraine aligned with the EU and the US that could foment discontent inside Russia.
- mik1998 2y agoUkraine is far poorer than Russia.
- seunosewa 2y agoHe would like to keep it that way.
- spiderfarmer 2y agoTrue, but Ukraine was on a very great trajectory, just like the baltic states. They were all proof that you don’t need the Russian federation.
- dboreham 2y agoIt's not just that he couldn't stand it, but rather what it does to his position inside Russia. If your business model is to rabbit on about how wonderful Russia is, and how sucky all other countries are, if there's a more successful more free country next door containing almost the same kind of people, then your words are hollow.
- thorncorona 2y agoNot really.. USA will not have a hostile cuba, just as Russia won’t have a hostile Ukraine, and China won’t have a hostile Taiwan on its doorstep.
- elif 2y agoWhat you mean like hong Kong? That humiliation pales in comparison to the damage done domestically as taiwan's defenses would necessitate a gross loss of life. Then consider the diplomatic posture of every major economy on the China sea.
- re-thc 2y ago> That humiliation pales in comparison to the damage done domestically as taiwan's defenses would necessitate a gross loss of life. There was life lost in Hong Kong. Potentially not the same amount, but yes lives were lost (not just what was mentioned in the media or from protests).
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- littlestymaar 2y agoNot only this, but also having direct access to the Pacific ocean for blue water operations (without getting detected when talking about submarines).