3 ms·

I'm convinced Herbert had some deep knowledge of psi phenomena. His descriptions of truthsayers reading people, timelines, race consciousness, and prescience ar

I'm convinced Herbert had some deep knowledge of psi phenomena. His descriptions of truthsayers reading people, timelines, race consciousness, and prescience are very similar to real experiences. His emphasis that it emerges through a combination of genetics and training of subtle awareness, plus the suggestion compounds could provide access to a state that could be sustained without them - also ring very true. The exploration of its paradoxes (destructiveness and utility of prophecy), and the contrast of those intuitive skills with the pure analytical ones of the mentat (or even of thinking machines) are also very deep. I think the idea that humanity's future involves a deeper engagement with and interplay of all these forces is also super likely. Perhaps he was friends, through his naval service, with people in the UK's version of Stargate (US psi and remote viewing programs). Surely there was such a program, tho I'm not aware of any releases of information about it.

zabzonk 2y ago
i just got downvoted for saying elsewhere that this "needs an /s" - but this either does, or you need some help.
- Havoc 2y ago
  > you need some help That seems a bit strong given all the wild stuff believe in a religious context.
  - keepamovin 2y ago
    Don’t even need religion to see wild stuff, or to know that your intuition has something to it beyond calculation from experience.
- balamatom 2y ago
  I was walking by the sea the other day and saw a man drowning. "You need help," I said helpfully. Mercifully, even!
  - zabzonk 2y ago
    perhaps he was just waving
    - balamatom 2y ago
      Might be. That'd certainly explain the ambulance I saw there on my way back, the dripping wet shape on the stretcher, covered with some sort of tarp (which I thought I recognized as torn from a nearby beach bar that'd been closed for the winter, emergency services over here being underfunded as they are.) But idk, they might've been picking up a beached dolphin or something. (With an ambulance?!)
      - zabzonk 2y ago
        Sorry, I didn't mean to belittle your experience, or the guy's demise. I was making a bit of a heartless pun of sorts on Stevie Smith's poem: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46479/not-waving-but-drowning https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46479/not-waving-but-...
- keepamovin 2y ago
  Thanks for the help!
balamatom 2y ago
Herbert and similar are the release of information, the main "psi phenomenon" explored over the XX century being precisely the remotely induced belief in "psi phenomena". That rabbit hole goes deep, though I have my doubts as to whether it leads out.
- keepamovin 2y ago
  No, psi predates modern sci fi and experiences of it are not generated by that. Belief is easy to find in preceding centuries too
  - balamatom 2y ago
    I'm not talking belief either, I'm talking praxis ;) IME, what you refer to by a Greek letter is either "just there" as part of one's perceptual and cognitive functioning, or "just isn't" - the latter obviously being the predominant case, being more adaptive for survival in a newly Enclosed world. One even has some degree of control as to enabling or disabling it. Without guidance as to avoiding its many pitfalls, though, it's still very easy to end up in a psychotic state, or some other uncomfortable frame and shape. Subsequently, the manifestation of cosmic love commonly called "natural selection" does what it's known to do... (My pet theory is that Abrahamic faiths, the promotion of Christianity to state-religion, and the consequent Dark Ages, were all parts of a sort of mass political reaction to people overdoing that sort of thing. Took a bunch more centuries than expected to even force it underground, though. And, as these things go, it reemerged nearly simultaneously in the form of the indigenous knowledges of colonized folk, who were subjected to more of the same violence, and then some.) What was being tested last century is whether the so-called "they" can switch it on or off for you, remotely; authors of fantastic literature, even if not directly informed from "on high", happen to be in a good position to sense these workings and conduct discourses on them. Makes for good business, too, since it is only natural for humans to want some enchantment in their lives. However, the background psychological pressures of living in perpetual encirclement naturally (well, mimetically) drive people to compartmentalization, such as the confining of these experiential coagulates into the sphere of "fictions" (if not outright "delusions", the distinction being, for the most part, simply of medium of conveyance.) Thankfully, as we all know, fiction is something that doesn't exist, and it doesn't take much to realize how this statement cuts both ways.
MrMcCall 2y ago
Concerning truthsayers: It is absolutely the truth that a liar will automatically have a difficult time knowing when another person is being truthful. They will both automatically tend to believe the person is lying and not know how to recognize the signs that a person is being completely truthful. It's the opposite of an honest person being more easily conned. It's not in their expectations, because of their own lack of devious ways. That's part of the reason that dictators rise to power on the backs of the gullible -- most people are just not that utterly ruthless, dishonest, or mean-spirited. All these GOP folks being fired and deported by Trump are just incapable of comprehending either how vile the man is or how stupid they are (which is why he targeted them with his cons). And America would be in a better situation right now if more Americans had their heads out of their asses enough to know that that is a bad, bad dude, who cares about one and only one person: himself and those that serve him. All that said, the first step to recognizing liars is to be brutally truthful, especially with yourself. The worst lies we tell are the ones we tell ourselves. [ETA: ps: I love you, my friend. Keep shining your light!]
- keepamovin 2y ago
  Yeah, self-awareness is necessary for these abilities. It's also a form of subtle awareness - that level of introspection and awareness of inner emotion and thought helps you comprehend other people. Like Van Gogh training himself on self-portraits, to then paint and see others. You need it, definitely! Well, at least it helps. I disagree with you on Trump, but I guess we can still be friends right?
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    No. That which you do to the least of my brothers, you have done unto me. No, but I'll teach you how to not be a loveless, narcissistic destroyer of happiness, like that purblind fool. That doesn't mean I don't love you, but I am commanded to love you less than the people whose oppression you countenance. Hitler was both self-aware and a hateful fuckhead. Self-awareness is worthless without a compassionate heart.
    - 2y ago

zabzonk 2y ago

i just got downvoted for saying elsewhere that this "needs an /s" - but this either does, or you need some help.

Havoc 2y ago
> you need some help That seems a bit strong given all the wild stuff believe in a religious context.
- keepamovin 2y ago
  Don’t even need religion to see wild stuff, or to know that your intuition has something to it beyond calculation from experience.
balamatom 2y ago
I was walking by the sea the other day and saw a man drowning. "You need help," I said helpfully. Mercifully, even!
- zabzonk 2y ago
  perhaps he was just waving
  - balamatom 2y ago
    Might be. That'd certainly explain the ambulance I saw there on my way back, the dripping wet shape on the stretcher, covered with some sort of tarp (which I thought I recognized as torn from a nearby beach bar that'd been closed for the winter, emergency services over here being underfunded as they are.) But idk, they might've been picking up a beached dolphin or something. (With an ambulance?!)
    - zabzonk 2y ago
      Sorry, I didn't mean to belittle your experience, or the guy's demise. I was making a bit of a heartless pun of sorts on Stevie Smith's poem: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46479/not-waving-but-drowning https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46479/not-waving-but-...
keepamovin 2y ago
Thanks for the help!

balamatom 2y ago

Herbert and similar are the release of information, the main "psi phenomenon" explored over the XX century being precisely the remotely induced belief in "psi phenomena". That rabbit hole goes deep, though I have my doubts as to whether it leads out.

keepamovin 2y ago
No, psi predates modern sci fi and experiences of it are not generated by that. Belief is easy to find in preceding centuries too
- balamatom 2y ago
  I'm not talking belief either, I'm talking praxis ;) IME, what you refer to by a Greek letter is either "just there" as part of one's perceptual and cognitive functioning, or "just isn't" - the latter obviously being the predominant case, being more adaptive for survival in a newly Enclosed world. One even has some degree of control as to enabling or disabling it. Without guidance as to avoiding its many pitfalls, though, it's still very easy to end up in a psychotic state, or some other uncomfortable frame and shape. Subsequently, the manifestation of cosmic love commonly called "natural selection" does what it's known to do... (My pet theory is that Abrahamic faiths, the promotion of Christianity to state-religion, and the consequent Dark Ages, were all parts of a sort of mass political reaction to people overdoing that sort of thing. Took a bunch more centuries than expected to even force it underground, though. And, as these things go, it reemerged nearly simultaneously in the form of the indigenous knowledges of colonized folk, who were subjected to more of the same violence, and then some.) What was being tested last century is whether the so-called "they" can switch it on or off for you, remotely; authors of fantastic literature, even if not directly informed from "on high", happen to be in a good position to sense these workings and conduct discourses on them. Makes for good business, too, since it is only natural for humans to want some enchantment in their lives. However, the background psychological pressures of living in perpetual encirclement naturally (well, mimetically) drive people to compartmentalization, such as the confining of these experiential coagulates into the sphere of "fictions" (if not outright "delusions", the distinction being, for the most part, simply of medium of conveyance.) Thankfully, as we all know, fiction is something that doesn't exist, and it doesn't take much to realize how this statement cuts both ways.

MrMcCall 2y ago

Concerning truthsayers: It is absolutely the truth that a liar will automatically have a difficult time knowing when another person is being truthful. They will both automatically tend to believe the person is lying and not know how to recognize the signs that a person is being completely truthful. It's the opposite of an honest person being more easily conned. It's not in their expectations, because of their own lack of devious ways. That's part of the reason that dictators rise to power on the backs of the gullible -- most people are just not that utterly ruthless, dishonest, or mean-spirited. All these GOP folks being fired and deported by Trump are just incapable of comprehending either how vile the man is or how stupid they are (which is why he targeted them with his cons). And America would be in a better situation right now if more Americans had their heads out of their asses enough to know that that is a bad, bad dude, who cares about one and only one person: himself and those that serve him. All that said, the first step to recognizing liars is to be brutally truthful, especially with yourself. The worst lies we tell are the ones we tell ourselves. [ETA: ps: I love you, my friend. Keep shining your light!]

keepamovin 2y ago
Yeah, self-awareness is necessary for these abilities. It's also a form of subtle awareness - that level of introspection and awareness of inner emotion and thought helps you comprehend other people. Like Van Gogh training himself on self-portraits, to then paint and see others. You need it, definitely! Well, at least it helps. I disagree with you on Trump, but I guess we can still be friends right?
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  No. That which you do to the least of my brothers, you have done unto me. No, but I'll teach you how to not be a loveless, narcissistic destroyer of happiness, like that purblind fool. That doesn't mean I don't love you, but I am commanded to love you less than the people whose oppression you countenance. Hitler was both self-aware and a hateful fuckhead. Self-awareness is worthless without a compassionate heart.
  - 2y ago